Episode 503: Last Soul Ultra Steals The Show | Kim Gottwald

 
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Kim Gottwald is a German ultra runner and content creator who went from law student to backyard-ultra standout by documenting extreme projects in public, including a co-win at Go One More in Texas, and a 449 km Last Soul Ultra victory at home. He co-founded the running brand Rappid, became BPN’s first German athlete, and now hosts Germany’s Last Soul Ultra. He has big plans for expanding Last Soul Ultra into multiple locations, including the US.

Kim: kimgottwald.info | IG: @kim.gottwald | YT: @Kim.gottwald

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Episode Summary:

Why backyard ultras work for growth and media

  • Backyard format is unusually accessible: no lottery/qualifier barrier like Western States or UTMB; beginners can start with a few loops.

  • Relatable to non-runners: everyone understands walking/running 4.2 miles; watching 60–80+ hours still feels graspable.

  • Hourly start/finish cadence creates natural engagement peaks — perfect for live streams and short-form clips.

  • Open fields let everyday runners line up against elites (Harvey Lewis, Mark Dowdle, etc.).

  • Kim’s view: backyard is the best current vehicle to pull new people into ultrarunning and trail running.

BPN, Last Soul, and production leap

  • BPN/Nick Bear showed the format can go mainstream when marketed and streamed well.

  • After Kim’s Go One More appearance, backyard exploded in Germany; she made the Last Soul documentary then launched Last Soul Ultra on short notice.

  • Chose full YouTube/Twitch-style live stream over Instagram-only lives so viewers could watch continuously from anywhere.

  • First Last Soul peaked ~45k live viewers (German-only stream, imperfect). Year two they went all-in (~€400–500k / ~$500–600k spend) with drones, night vision, and filler content during the quiet mid-loop stretches.

  • Production + storytelling turned existing athletes (Mark Dowdle, Sarah Perry, Megan Eccard, Caro Bolter, etc.) into bigger personalities; Dowdle went from ~100k to ~400k followers after winning.

Mark Dowdle storyline at Last Soul Ultra 2

  • Signed as a Rapid athlete; travel from the U.S. nearly missed the start because of Chicago weather delays.

  • Kim’s team booked a last-minute private jet Amsterdam → Münster; Mark arrived ~15 minutes before the first bell after ~24 hours of travel/no real sleep.

  • Crew (Lucy + Kellen) had already set up camp.

  • Mark still won (~94 hours / 630 km). Mid-race viral moment: he stopped at a camera at night and delivered the “I’m not here for the souls” line.

  • Kim: he lives for chaos and obstacles; many of the memorable lines are improvised after looping for hours.

Scaling Last Soul

  • After year two they decided to go international rather than stay Germany-only.

  • Plan: multiple events in 2027, starting with partnerships (e.g., Dead Cow Gully in Australia) rather than simple franchise licensing.

  • Keep quality control and “Last Soul soul”; mix flying the core German media team (BSP, Hamburg) with local crews.

  • Goal is impact and athlete spotlight, not just “biggest event.” Claimed ~10 million unique stream viewers last time; many new runners cited the coverage as the reason they started.

Format experiments

  • Zach floated an unsupported / no-crew division.

  • Kim likes the idea personally (crews make it far easier; unsupported is brutal) but worries races would end earlier and look less impressive to casual viewers.

  • Both agreed it probably needs someone with reach to set an official unsupported mark first, then others chase it. Could sit alongside, not replace, the crewed last-person-standing format.

  • Phil Gore (mentioned from Zach’s previous episode) compared it to making the javelin heavier once throws got too long — future records may force new competitive layers.

Kim’s life and trade-offs (age 23)

  • Athlete first (co-won Go One More, won first Last Soul), then Rapid apparel + Last Soul events exploded.

  • Trying to train like a pro while working 10–15 hour days destroyed recovery and sleep; she stepped back from racing to build the brands.

  • Philosophy: everything you get costs something; current obsession is growing the sport and the two brands. Racing is paused, not cancelled — peak performance age for men is later anyway, and Harvey Lewis is proof of longevity.

  • Mission: tell stories that make people want to watch or buy, not just advertise at them.

Closing

  • Watch the latest Last Soul Ultra “next stage” reel.

  • Check Rapid athletes and the live streams; Kim wants people convinced by the product and stories first.


Timestamps:

0:02:03 The Rise of Backyard Ultras

0:05:12 Media's Role in Ultra Running

0:08:09 Diversity in Backyard Ultra Participants

0:10:54 Innovative Event Formats and Storytelling

0:14:06 The Last Soul Ultra Experience

0:16:56 Mark Dowdle's Journey and Performance

0:20:00 Challenges and Triumphs in Event Production

0:30:25 The Unforgettable Moment: Mark's Viral Clip

0:34:50 Scaling Last Soul Ultra: Future Plans

0:37:25 The Impact of Media in Ultra Running

0:41:09 Exploring New Formats: Uncrewed Backyard Ultras

0:48:27 Balancing Ambition and Athleticism


Transcript

Zach Bitter (02:03)

Kim, welcome to the show.


Kim Gottwald (02:05)

Thank you for having me. Good to be here. Thank you, Zach.


Zach Bitter (02:09)

Yeah, I'm really excited to talk to you because for a variety of reasons actually, but one of the one of the big ones that that I've gotten more and more interested in over the last couple of years has been just the growth of the backyard ultra scene, all the cast and characters within it, and then just the way that side of the sport has leveraged media, which I find has been


just done in a in an excellent way with respect to helping it grow and bring in not just people who are already interested in ultra marathon running or backyard ultras and things like that, but it seems to be something where when that media is done right and the the group of people are thinking about it, it ends up kind of getting this almost mainstream storyline that gets kind of promoted to people who have no background in ultra, maybe they're sports fans, maybe they're not, then something happens that it kind of


pops up in and your name has come up a couple of times in that type of a conversation and with my own just following and stuff like that. So I'm really excited to talk to you about the kind of everything that's gone into what you've been up to over the years.


Kim Gottwald (03:16)

Okay, that was a lot. Thank you, first of all again for having me. And yeah, I'm so glad you're saying it this way and phrasing it this way. So my first touch run with the backyard was actually so I heard of it quite a bit, but then I was, yeah, accepted or in like accepted to the lottery for the Go and Mo Ultra in twenty of two thousand twenty four. And I as I said like I was not that into backyards, but I kinda knew what it was about. But


Like in the process of training for it, seeing it for the first time, running it for the first time, then hosting my own event for the first time, I realized that I think the backyard in a way is the best opportunity to get as many people interested and excited with and in ultrarunning that there is out there. Like no other event type can make my grandma or someone who is not into sports at all so hyped for running. Because


If you are not into running, running is so boring. It's just from A to B and it's like, why should I watch it? But I feel like the backyard kinda opened it up to the mainstream and people get interested into it and then furthermore into trail running and whatever. And I think the backyard has so many special aspects to it that help those things. And I could talk for two hours nonstop about why the backyard is a perfect format. But yeah, as you said, I think there are a lot of


special things and criteria that make the backyard so special for the general viewer who's not that into running, but also for the experienced runner, for the trail runner, for the backyard athlete, it's so cool to see a race unfold for several hours with the good life coverage. And I think we kinda saw that, picked up on that, and now we're trying to yeah, grow the sport and give


the sport and especially the athletes the spot like they deserve.


Zach Bitter (05:16)

Yeah. Yeah, you're a hundred percent right that there's a lot of variables I think that line up nicely to make Backyard Ultra what it is from a notoriety standpoint. There there's a few that I find interesting. I'd like to run by you to see what your thoughts are. One was Mark Dowdle shared with me that I hadn't really thought of before. And he said that he thinks one of the reasons it's popular is because when people are following it and watching it, it's


There's not this barrier to entry the way there is with, say, Western States 100 or UTMB, which are gonna get a ton of coverage. Because for one, there's a learning curve that goes into finding yourself comfortable enough to say, okay, I'm gonna go for a hundred miles and try to finish this course. Then there's all the logistics that are required to even get a qualifier and then get in off the lottery on events like that. So it ends up being something where I think if someone watches that and they get excited about it, they look and say, Well,


I'm a long way from that if they're not already fully invested. Whereas with a backyard, you could be at a very beginning stage of your running career and say, Hey, I'm gonna sign up just to experience this, maybe only get a couple laps done. And you still experience the event and you can build from there. And I think that's what Mark kind of pointed out. He was like, Yeah, it really doesn't matter how developed you are, you can participate and start somewhere. And that just kind of brings that entry point down


to make everyone, at least in theory, consider, hey, maybe I should try something like that.


Kim Gottwald (06:43)

Yeah. I think it goes even further because as I said, for example, my parents, my grandparents, they are so invested in those events. My friends' parents and normally to quote unquote older people like to be excited in a live stream of sports and whatever is not that easy. But I think so I always draw the parallel to swimming. If I watch a swimming competition, I know those guys are crazy. But if they swim a thirty second, one hundred or fifty second


I don't like that I can't grasp the difference because I'm just not into it. And I think for a normal person, it's pretty hard to understand how fast a 100 meter swim is. But if we think about running or just traveling distance by foot, that's the core of our existence. And we can kind of understand how exhausting that is. So even if you're not into sports at all, you can kinda understand guess how far 4.2 miles, 6.7 kilometers are, and how


It is hard, quite unquote, to travel this distance. So everybody can kind of relate and you're like, well, I could do one loop, I could do two, I could maybe do five, but those guys are going for sixty, seventy, eighty hours, and you can kinda like, even though you can't understand, you can understand how hard it is. I think that's the first barrier that makes it so reachable for the general audience. And as Mark said, everybody can.


Participate, it's easy to get in those events. And in theory, you can line up at every single event, and there could be someone like a Mark, like a Harvey, or whoever, because they race in those general, open to public events, and you can line up against the best of the world in a normal event. You can't get into UTMB or Western States, whatever, and line up against the hands or whoever. And I think that's what makes it special.


Zach Bitter (08:36)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The other thing I find really interesting that I'd like to hear your thoughts on too is just both the types of people who have been attracted to backyard ultras, I have found it to be pretty diverse with respect to like you get your traditional ultrasound. I mean you get someone like Harvey Lewis, right? Who's been in the ultra world like since I can remember


I did my first ultra in 2010 and Harvey's kind has always been there. And he sort of has just evolved as the sport has too and has moved into these multi-day types of things from like a 24-hour background. And then you also just get like people who are coming into running just like the newer group of people where running's gotten more popular. So we're getting people coming in from different backgrounds, strength backgrounds. We just see like a huge


kind of like more interest in I can do that versus I don't want to do that, which is maybe the response people had for running events historically. So the thing I find kind of interesting with this is you kind of have the Laz's original kind of backyard and then the growth just with that, which was probably a little bit more in the more specific ultra running community. Then you have like Nick Bear decide to put on the BPU on


last man or last person standing event that first year. And that was something that I think really blew it up because the format there was just so perfectly thought of, I think, when with respect to just you kind of have these really, really high impact points from a from just like an engagement standpoint, like right at right around every hour because you know people are gonna finish around there. They're gonna start around there. So if you leverage short form


content, everyone kind of knows that around the start of every hour, I'm just gonna hop up in here and watch the whole chaos occur and then I'll like to have discussions about it for the next 45 minutes before they come in and we do it all again. And it just had this kind of perfect feel of just momentum gathering and gathering and gathering. And I thought that was just like such an interesting leverage point. and and you get someone like Nick who he's he's obviously just a massive personality, but he's just like


very


widespread across the fitness world, not just specifically to one thing. So he's kind of got his foot in all these different areas. So the number of people who see him do put on something like this just opens it up to a whole new group of people. So I thought that was just a really interesting leverage point. My next thought after that was just like, well, who's gonna grab onto that concept and add another layer to it. And that's where you kind of came in with the last soul ultra I felt like


What you did with that was like you took kind of the concepts that VPN did, but then put a whole nother layer of media on top of it with like the drone shots and the YouTube stuff that went along with it. And it just felt like it was the total package for just online virality around like massive human performances.


Kim Gottwald (11:45)

Well, thank you, first of all. So as you said, I think BPN struck gold in a way that the back head has been around for fifteen years plus. So the format is not new. But what BPN showed is that if you market it right and if you show it correctly and you just portray like you have a great storytelling and obviously the story that unfolded at BPN was pretty special and kinda crazy. But


Every single backhead has so many intense stories. So they really showed what a properly portrayed backhead can look like and how it can attract so many different people, as we talked about. And once I came back to Germany and my life changed overnight, I saw I jumped from 40,000 followers to 175,000, and out of nowhere, backhead was just popular in Germany. So a lot of people reached out to me and were like, hey.


We need this in Germany. Even though we had Becky's in Germany, most people were not aware of it. They were not calling it Becky. They were calling it we need a Go One more in Germany. We need to go on more. And like, well,


Zach Bitter (12:49)

Yeah.


Kim Gottwald (12:49)

it's not a Go on more, it's a Becker. So then we kinda like in six weeks, we discussed internally, okay, we need to do an event. I published a documentary called The Last Soul about the Gome Ultra. And then we just called the new event The Last Soul Ultra. And it was short notice, everything.


But I already realized because VPN had those Instagram livestreams running the whole time. And I realized people were tuning in and in my head there were two options we could go down. Option one is just stick to the Instagram live streams for our own event because they kinda keep it mysterious. You don't know what's happening, you just see Instagram live, you need to hop in every hour to understand. But what would be if you had a proper live stream that would portray everything all the time? YouTube, Twitch.


So we went down the second route, which was a huge investment, but we were pretty confident because I saw that the format was just so perfect. There's no other format you can stream for fifty, sixty, seventy plus hours, and it's interesting all the time, and it even gets more interesting the longer it goes. And you can tune in from anywhere around the world you can tune in. If I want to watch a UFC fight in Germany, I need to wake up at 3 AM. That sucks. But at the back yet you can just tune in wherever you are.


And just okay, maybe it's nighttime then while it's daytime where you're staying, but it does not matter because the backyard has the same concept every single hour, and you know what you're getting every single hour. It just gets more intense and more exciting the longer it goes. So we kind of realized that did the first last soul and we peaked at 45,000 live viewers in the end, and we realized okay, this might be something because


It was not perfect. We were struggling. It was only a German stream. There were some things a bit off. And then we sat down and finally like it was pretty funny because sponsors did not really believe in it and did not see the vision. So for this year, we kind of went all in. We just said we put all our money on black and hoped it would hit. And I think it did. But yeah, it was like I also invested all my personal funds and everything into it. So we tried to do the best live stream possible.


focusing on drones, night vision, having so in the backyard you have like obviously around the hour it's super interesting because people come in and then they go out again. But then for 20 minutes, well people just run and you don't see anything. So we tried to create content in those areas, have better drone coverage, and we just worked it out completely and tried everything. And then during the race we realized this format is just


Perfect in many ways, I don't even know what it is, but the human is just interested in a backyard and people running around in circles as long as they like for as long as there's only one person left in the end. And yeah, that's kind of the story how it came to this point. And now we realized this sport has been around for so long, but it has not been shown properly. and without any offense to anybody, I think there's there's so much


behind that and it's there are such huge huge investments we need to do to display it properly. But the media team we're working with is incredible. And I think going forward, having the opportunity to highlight those athletes, being at Fulgore, Sarah Perry, Megan Eccard, they have been in the sport for years and years and they're so incredible at what they do. And I find it so inc such an honor to be to have the possibility now to


Give them the spotlight they deserve and really show what they can do on the biggest stage we can offer. And as you saw with Mark, Mark jumped from one hundred thousand followers to four hundred thousand just just by winning a race. And like him he can do what he does like as his full-time job now. And having this on the horizon that we can help other athletes do what they do and they kind of like


Becoming even more professional at what they do is just something we're really aiming for and I think it's just great for every single one, every single one involved. The viewer, the athlete and I think this is the future of us of the sport, yeah.


Zach Bitter (17:11)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It it is really fascinating when you look at someone like Mark Dowdle who like


It's funny to me because I've kind of followed Mark Dowdle for a couple of years prior to this year, where he kind of launched up a bit with the Go One More Ultra and then kind of exponentially catapulted even further with your last soul ultra. And he's kind of just been doing the same thing as he had, like he was doing the same things as he was doing at those two events, but he just didn't have that.


like a perfect spotlight to really show who he is and why he's so interesting to people. And that was one of the things I that really stood out with with your production at Lasso Ultra was we didn't just get to we didn't have to dig to find out who Mark was because he won or because he said like one interesting thing over the course of the event and then became a bit of a a chatroom favorite, so to speak.


You guys got some absolutely incredible footage of him like going in and out of the loops and on the loops and things like that. That just I think really pushed his personality of what he had been doing for years with just, you know, you grind away, grind away, grind away, and then you catch a break. It's like a perfect example of that. And yeah, I mean, I think there's obviously something to it. It's not like he wasn't doing these events before that, but when he found himself at G G one or go one more and Last Soul Ultra, it's really where he


granted he also delivered pretty big performances there too, which helps. So perfect recipe.


Kim Gottwald (18:45)

Definitely. And I think as you said, there are probably thousands of Mark Dowells out there who can maybe not do what he did because Mark is just Mark is a beast. But there's so many talented runners out there and ultra runners who can deliver incredible performances, have great personalities, and they did not yet have the had the possibility to really


go into the spotlight or get the spotlight it deserves. And I think that it's always such an interesting and funny aspect. We call them like I said, the underdogs. And you just have people out there. We had Caro Bolter. She's a j like she's a German and she never went further than eighty kilometers in a backyard simulation. She just came, did fifty two loops, the German record, looked incredible afterwards. She was she was fit and Mark all said he was he was like


She will do top three at least. And she was just like, Yeah, I'm calling it quits here. I'm done for today. And you just have these people coming out of nowhere never heard of, who just deliver incredible performances. And I think that makes the sport so special and it's even cooler when you can show it properly.


Zach Bitter (20:00)

Mm-hmm.


Yeah. I mean you mentioned something before too that I think is worth diving into that I suspect kind of highlights why these two events have been able to do this, whereas you know, there's hundreds of last man or last person standing events back here at Ultras out there. so like why you two? And one of it like BPN makes sense because it's like that's a you know, Nick Bears a a massive channel in and of itself, and then


Bare performance nutrition is a huge brand. So there's just a lot of resources available. If they want to put a spotlight on something, they're going to be able to do it. Then it becomes something like, well, how reproducible is that without having a huge brand and market behind you already. And it sounds like with you, you kind of said, well, you just have to invest. You have to take that risk and you push all your chips to the center of the table and hope that plays out.


How nerve wracking it was that when you decided we're going all in and this could if this totally belly flops, then I'm starting from scratch versus maybe really taking off.


Kim Gottwald (21:08)

So we kinda did it twice now because the first year was also kinda so nobody trusted because it's before we did those events, never really no one really believed that backyards or a livestream of a running event could do numbers and obviously sponsors are yeah, a bit more cautious than. So the thing is with these events, if you're not doing them, so with us like playing the first and the second edition, I was like, well


It's obviously not cheap, but it can't be that expensive, right? Trust me, it's pretty expensive, especially the live stream and coverage. And like I am, I'm not complaining because what those guys did is incredible and they deserve every single penny. But obviously we're talking about four hundred, five hundred thousand euros plus around five hundred, six hundred thousand dollars going into those events.


Because it's just like organizing and having everything set up, location, logistics, media, catering, whatever, it's just so much it adds up and especially media coverage is just just expensive. But so yeah, we were kinda like how we work at Rapid and Last Souls. Just if we believe in it, we just throw everything into it and make it work. And that's how it worked.


Till now and hopefully that doesn't change anytime soon. But yeah, we just we just went all in because we believed in it and I think it showed that it worked and that this is actually something that will probably shape the future of backyards and probably also ultra running because I feel like other like also trail running and everyone else, they kinda like they now saw what's possible and the the viewers saw what's possible.


And they will be like, Well, we want that in the future. And even though it's way harder to reproduce that in western states or whatever, because it's not a four point two mile loop you need to cover, but like one hundred miles of pure distance. I think that's great for every single party involved, that we will see a way better coverage of other races soon, and I'm looking forward to that.


Zach Bitter (23:23)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I want to get into a little bit of the storyline around Last Soul Ultra 2 because it almost looked like it was something that could have been a disaster that ended up becoming one of the big value ads was Mark Dowdle's arrival to the event. So and and I honestly, like that's what really caught my interest originally was I was following Mark. He had actually just been on my podcast not that long prior to that. So


E I I see him start posting about how he was like laid over in an airport trying to get to this event and then next thing I see is he's on a private jet to get to the event and the next thing after that is he's getting there literally fifteen minutes before the start, just in the nick of time. So there was like a story already in place before and then obviously in hindsight we see how important that is because he ends up winning the thing. So now you have this guy barely make it to the start and then go on to win versus, you know, if he had just like


fallen apart after day one, then maybe that's not as interesting of a storyline anymore. But it just kind of fed into the, I think the success of all of that. So I wanna hear just kind of the thought process that you had during all of that. Cause I have to imagine that was quite stressful given that you invested a ton of money in this thing. Mark Dowdle's a key figure that you're hoping probably to come in, put on a performance and


a day or so before the race, you're trying to book a private jet from Amsterdam to the airport closest to the event to try to get him there on time?


Kim Gottwald (24:56)

Yeah,


Mark is a rapid athlete and we signed with him prior to the event. We talked a lot and obviously we both were super interested in him competing. But he had that one s like speech he was given and that was set for a year plus and so he couldn't move it. So we were checking flights and it was close but it was doable. and then some days prior there was the info that in Chicago and he had the layoff in Chicago


All the flights were delayed due to heavy rain. And we were a bit worried, but I was like, there's so much going on here, I can't focus too much on that. But then one day prior, and obviously you have the time difference. So we are seven hours ahead of the states. So we were seven hours in the future to so to say. And Mark was like on the tarmac, his other flight was leaving, he missed his flight, and it was already night time. So it was like 11 p.m. or close to midnight. And


The next day was the race, so we were twelve hours out from the first bell. So we were on the phone with Mark, with Lucy, with Kellen, and we're just trying to figure it out. And he was planning to land in Frankfurt, which is south of the event site in Germany. But the next flight to Frankfurt from Chicago was six hours later, so that wouldn't work. So we flew him to Amsterdam at nighttime at like 1 a.m. phoned any private jet company


We could find and trust me, I've never booked a private jet. I don't know. We just googled private jet Amsterdam and the first link we clicked and we just called. So we kind of figured that out. Booked that private jet, and then everything worked kinda fine. The pilots flew 10 minutes faster than planned in the private jet to get him even faster to Münster, which was the nearest city to the event site. Because the event site was pretty remote.


So my father picked Mark up. They sped and thankfully there's no speed limit on the Autobahn highway in Germany.


Zach Bitter (26:57)

Yeah.


Kim Gottwald (26:59)

So I went to the event location. And yeah you couldn't script it better. It's a Hollywood script. Mark arrived fifteen minutes prior. And I was like, Well, first of all, thank God he's here. But he hasn't really slept in twenty four hours. He has been traveling all the time. And I don't know how you feel, but if I travel, I'm just


Traveling is so exhausting for me. I hate it so


Zach Bitter (27:21)

Yeah.


Kim Gottwald (27:22)

much. So I'm like, well, I know Mark's a beast, but I don't know if he can go all the way. And twenty-four hours in, he was looking okay. Forty-eight hours in, I get a text from Mark and he's like, Well, the jet lag is finally over. I'm feeling great now. And I was like, Okay, this guy is special. Yeah, and then he went on to win it. incredible, because if you can deliver those performances on


A short period of sleep shows that there's much more left in the tank.


Zach Bitter (27:55)

Yeah. Yeah, I'm really excited to see what Mark continues to do 'cause it just seems like his whole story is one of like starting with failures and then kind of just like growing and growing and growing and has that kind of continuous progress standpoint. And yeah, this one really did.


add to that because he didn't just go further than he had gone before, but he also did it with a lot of hurdles. But yeah, I can't imagine just the mindset of knowing you're going into this event where sleep deprivation is going to be one of the big variable pinch points and you're coming in a full night compromise before the start.


Granted, he probably slept a little bit on that private jet, but I can't imagine it was a solid eight hours or anything like that. So, and then just set up too. Like I'm curious, did you guys have a crew for him there already set up? Is that how that ended up working? Because I saw him setting up not only in person, but some of the videos he put up at BPN and it looked like it was a process in and of itself. So I was kind of curious about how that played out. He got there 15 minutes before everything was already ready for him.


Kim Gottwald (29:00)

Yeah, so we were aware that it would be pretty close, not that close, but pretty close. So Lucy, Mark's wife and Kellen, his other crew member and best friend, flew out prior, I think three days prior, and they set up everything and prepared everything. Because within fifteen minutes, that would have been pretty tough. But Mark also said, and I think that's what makes Mark so special, he lives for those situations, he lives for those circumstances, for those hurdles and


Most people and I would include myself, I'll be pretty stressed and I'll be like, Now I need to raise my sleep deprivation and being already exhausted and why and what but he's just going in there and he's like, Well, great. Another obstacle to overcome, let's go. And I think that's what makes him as an athlete and a person super, super special and yeah, one of a kind.


Zach Bitter (29:55)

Yeah. Yeah, he's got a unique skill where he's not overthinking things that are out of his control to the point where I think he's burning a lot of cognitive bandwidth trying to troubleshoot something. He's kinda he's got that that that right amount of just like, I'll figure this out in don't worry about what I can't control the type of a mentality that I think really helps him push into it. I wanna ask one question about the event itself and kind of the content gathering is cause obviously you're like probably like just


looking


for as much of the kind of storyline to push out as possible. When you what was it like when you first got that clip where I can't remember what loop it was, where Mark stopped in the middle of the night and he looks into this camera. It's like right out of a horror film and just said,


Kim Gottwald (30:45)

So


Zach Bitter (30:45)

like, I'm not here for how yeah, the the souls


Kim Gottwald (30:48)

Yeah.


Zach Bitter (30:49)

you yeah, tell me about that.


Kim Gottwald (30:51)

I was the most legendary line by far. And so the second they jump to a 1v1 situation, I knew Mark is just really strong when it comes to those situations. I learned that myself in Austin during GoMo this year. So we knew it would be pretty interesting. And Mark like I don't know why, but he has this thing. He just does does these wild animal noises at night and just puts up a show, which is I feel like when you're racing him, it just like you're like


What the fuck is this guy doing?


Zach Bitter (31:21)

Ha ha.


Kim Gottwald (31:23)

And so he just was doing his loops, having fun. And then so we were standing, I think I was standing with two of my Rapid team members, some other guys that were still on site, and Lucy, and I was watching the stream on my phone, and out of nowhere he just runs past the camera, but he stops and walks towards and I was like, What is going on? And then he says this line, this viral clip, I think everybody has seen by now.


And I was like, I had goose problems. I was like, nah, this can't be real. And also seeing Sam Harvey being two two tons further away, I was like, this is this like it was just you can make up those stories. They just happen and you need to capture them. And I was in that one I was just like, nah, this is crazy.


Zach Bitter (32:08)

Yeah. And that's what makes Mark interesting, I think, is you see that you'd think he had to have sat down before the event and thought of like some of these lines that he's gonna say during it, but it's not. It's just like him totally like winging it while he's out there and they come to him. He's kinda like a stand up comedian.


Kim Gottwald (32:23)

I talked to him about it. Yeah, I talked to him


about it because I was interested in it as far as I'm aware, it's just because I know it. You're alone for ninety four hours. You're on the track and you're doing nothing. You have so much time and also the one line he said with the story in your mind is not true, every step is evidence. He was thinking about that for one loop or for several loops and then he was just saying it out loud. And I think it's so interesting because it gives


you kinda like an insight into what he's thinking and and going through in those races and but yeah, he's talented when it comes to speaking in every single direction.


Zach Bitter (34:24)

Yeah, that was incredible. Yeah. So if you finished this and what are your first thoughts after the dust kind of settled with respect to all right, I have this event that got a lot a lot of momentum. You're probably thinking the investment paid off this time around. Are you thinking how do I scale this? Or is it more kind of sticking to the single event and


continue


to grow with it or what are your future plans with Last Soul Ultra?


Kim Gottwald (34:56)

So we had the f like in January of this year we talked a bit internally about how it would be super cool to scale it globally because it's such a special format and nobody has really done it on a live streaming from a live streaming point of view the way we did it. So after the event this year we were pretty even though it was pretty stressful and a lot of work went into it, we were confident of going international because it was just another next logical step.


to do for us. But hey, we're a small team here in Germany. We put all our money into this event and now going globally it's obviously a pretty huge step. But we saw how well it was received in the States. So we kinda went to Tennessee, checked out some locations and then also sat down with other people and then realized okay we want to do this properly. We want to scale this internationally and yeah have multiple events 2027 because


I just said the next logical step and to grow the sport, to show what this sport is about and to highlight those athletes. I think it's the best way to do it. And for us, it's hard to say, like there was no real obviously there was a thought process behind it, but it just felt like a natural thing to do now, like the thing we should do. and that's how it came about. I think the mission is just to


In the best way, make this as big as possible. Not from a perspective of wanting to have the biggest event ever, but from a perspective of how we can influence and inspire so many people out there. We saw it at our last event, like having 10 million unique viewers in the stream. And seeing this number and being like, every one of them like every single viewer took something from it. Like a lot, I just started running. Like I saw hundreds of reels and TikToks of people being like,


If Mark can run for 94 hours and 630 kilometers, I can do one loop. And it was so cool to see that those performances have a real impact and they're changing lives for the better. And looking forward to being able to do this on a worldwide scale, I feel like I always I always say when I'm on my deathbed and I can say this is like we left an impact, we built something which made lives better.


There's everything I could ever ask for. And so I'm just excited to see how far it goes, yeah.


Zach Bitter (37:25)

Mm-hmm.


Yeah, the media production side of things is really interesting right now in the ultra marathon world in general. And it sounds kind of like what you may have going on is similar to Aravipa, who they, you know, have a big race organization. I think they have like 70 some events at this point, but they started their media team in-house to cover their events. And I don't know how much of this was planned, but once they kind of got that proof of concept out there to the ultra running community, a lot of other events would just say, Hey, we want to just pay you to come in.


and do that at our event because it is, as you know, a high bar to get all that stuff organized and packaged in a way that is successful. So is your strategy going to be going to these different spots and setting up your own unique events and everything? Or are you going to work with current events that are there and bring the media side into it? Is there or maybe there's like two different ways you're going about this?


Kim Gottwald (38:19)

Yeah, they're definitely like yeah, there are different ways we're going about it. So for example, with the Australian event, we're teaming up with Dead Car Gully, which is a pretty special Australian backyard where two world records have been set already. But in a way, we are not just coming there to put up our media coverage and that's it. Obviously we're bringing the soul of Last Soul Ultra to the event and having our own event there just teaming up with them because


Having a great location is super important in a backyard and it also adds something to the story. And in terms of media, so we're working with a media company called BSP and they're from Hamburg in Germany. Good friends of ours and incredibly talented. And we will do it kind of fifty fifty. So for the most of the time we will bring the whole team over there, but sometimes we will just bring the most important people and work with


media personnel on site in the selected country. But the idea is to host only events that stand for themselves and not to just join another event and put the last solar branding on it and make it a franchise in a way. We we want to have the control because right now, in a way we have a blueprint that works for us and I think is is great to show these events and we don't want to throw that overboard and just yeah have


other events just take the name last soul and do whatever. We wanna keep the quality or the level we have right now and yeah, establish it.


Zach Bitter (39:51)

Yeah, it is interesting because I think kinda like what we were talking about in the beginning too, you have this unique format where you really just need this slightly past four mile, six point seven kilometer loop. So it's not like you need to go in and get a permit for a hundred miles of trail or anything like that. So it almost does seem like I wouldn't call it easy to do that, but it's gotta be a lot easier to just at least theorize where I can if I can find a spot where I can build this loop then


Really all we gotta do is apply the structure that we already know to it and you're off to the races, so to speak.


Kim Gottwald (40:26)

Yeah, definitely. We're planning a marathon in Germany right now for our brand rapid. And it's so much harder with all the like cutting off streets and having like other routing and stuff, it's and it's so much more expensive. So in a way that's a real blessing with the backhead that you only need to like the best place you have a private property, great course, four point two miles, that's it. It's not that crazy. And we need good cell service.


That's like the only aspect we have to worry about. But besides that it's way easier than yeah, putting on a biggie van f with an A to B like a A to B race or a bigger loop race.


Zach Bitter (41:09)

Mm-hmm.


Yeah. Yeah, I have one more kind of backyard ultra question for you. And then I want to dive in a bit into just everything. I mean, we've talked about some of it just on this podcast so far, but you've got a lot going on. I want to kind of get an idea of how you manage your time a bit. But for the last question with backyard ultras, I've gotten really interested in the different types of formats that could be included into this one that would make it or just add another layer to it.


I think obviously you need a sport to grow enough before you start getting too messy with categories and stuff like that. But a category I'm really interested in right now would be a backyard ultra format with no crews, where all the runners, same everything else is the same except you just you have to self serve. What are your thoughts about having an uncrewed division at some of these events? Do you think that would have any potential to take off and become sort of its own beast?


Kim Gottwald (42:06)

I think so from a personal perspective I find it very interesting because I know how much value a crew brings and doing this unsupported is a horror because it sounds so so easy. You come in, well you just need to eat something, to drink something, lay down, sleep, whatever. But like it's so exhausting to pick your own food and make your own drinks or whatever. It's just way easier if someone just hands it to you and


Take care of yourself, you don't have to think anymore. They just take care of everything you need to do. Just come in and do whatever they tell you to do. Also, waking up in the middle of the night to go out again, I think I would miss every single alarm I set. So having an unsu unsupported division would be really interesting. I think the only thing that might not make it as interesting for viewers is that those races would end way earlier because it's just so much harder. And therefore I think


especially the mainstream is just super interested in going as far as possible because for


Zach Bitter (43:07)

Mm-hmm.


Kim Gottwald (43:08)

then if someone runs unsupported three hundred K, it's not as impressive if someone runs six hundred K supported, even though it might be the same effort from an effort side, but yeah. But I love the idea.


Zach Bitter (43:20)

Yeah, it may yeah,


it may just be one of those things where if it keeps growing and there's an appetite for more more things going on on the inside, then it has a I I actually asked Phil Gore this question. I had him on the podcast last night and he said that he thought the way that would probably work would be that you would almost need somebody to do it that has some amount of reach and basically claim the unsupported record. So now there is sort of this.


this mark out there where let's say someone does fifty five loops unsupported or something like that. Then all of a sudden they say, Hey, as far as I know, I've got the record for longest unsupported BYU effort. And then everyone's like, well, I can do better than that. And then also maybe you kind of grassroot it up from there. And I thought that was maybe an interesting


concept because to some degree that's kind of how the backyards got popular in the first place was just you kinda had these numbers put up and then someone said I can do better and then we've seen it just kinda continually grow to the point where now we're pushing out to one nineteen.


Kim Gottwald (44:21)

I think as you said, someone needs to do the first step and then it will become an interesting format of its own. Yeah. What did Phil say? Was he interested in trying it?


Zach Bitter (44:30)

Yeah, I mean he made an interesting analogy. He said like if you think of just like he used the javelin as an example. He's like the javelin was this event where, you know, it was growing as you'd expect a sport to as it gets more exposure. And eventually it got to a point where people were throwing the javelin into the track. So like, well, what do we do? We can't really move anything here. So they just made the javelin heavier so they wouldn't throw it as far. And he's like, Maybe we get to a point where we push the record out.


far enough where it's not as much of an intrigue anymore about who's gonna go further than we ever have before because there's just such little opportunity left to push much further. And it becomes more of a competition of just who's gonna win on the day, then chase a record. And once you kind of get to that point, people maybe start focusing that energy of I wanna see the biggest number we've ever seen before to I just want to see the person who can tolerate the most and


Maybe that kind of removes that pressure of just total optimization with a crew and allows some space for that. And and, you know, I think the other thing Phil said too is he's like, it is one of those things that I could see it being intriguing to the average person because when you think of the logistics that go into the idea of getting up to some of these really high numbers, just committing that time yourself, much less committing


your cruise time to that and everything, it just gets to be challenging probably for people to do a lot of that. So maybe it opens up a door where people can do more of them with that format and they get excited about that. It's really hard to know until it gets tested, I guess. But it's been one of those things I found kind of an interesting side though conversation along the whole backyard archer growth.


Kim Gottwald (46:18)

I like the anal analogy as well. I think we might reach that point, but I don't know yet if people will say, we're going too far, we need to stop those guys.


Zach Bitter (46:30)

Interest.


Kim Gottwald (46:32)

But we will see, we'll see.


Zach Bitter (46:33)

Yeah, I think and it is I think at the least we'd probably or at most we'd probably see two categories. I wouldn't personally want to see it become something where we start changing the format to just that because I think there's a lot of excitement with the crew. And the other thing Phil said too is like there's a lot of memorable moments for the crew and the participants that go into that team aspect of doing that.


that you just take with you. It's like the real value in the thing where like when all the, you know, the attention and the potential monetization is passed and, you know, you ask yourself down the road, like, was that really worth it? And you have all these cool interactions that you had with friends and family members that are out there helping you. It's like that is the one of the unique things of having the crew and being able to show people the sport that maybe haven't done it yet and get them excited about doing one themselves. Crewing is one of the


number one way in my opinion to do that. So I do think it would have to be something that kind of runs alongside versus take over necessarily. yeah, but interesting stuff. Hopefully more growth just gives us more categories and fun things to play around with at the end of the day.


Kim Gottwald (47:44)

Yeah, I think as long as we have the last man standing concept, there's so much to do. Because the last man standing is interesting on its own and adding different layers to it I think as soon as the spot is quite unquote big enough, there's a lot we can do, yeah.


Zach Bitter (48:01)

Yeah. Well, thankfully we got guys like you making it bigger. So we have hope.


Kim Gottwald (48:06)

Thank you.


Zach Bitter (48:07)

Speaking of doing a lot, I did want to kind of chat with you a little bit about just what makes you you, because if I'm not mistaken, you're only like 25 years old, right?


Kim Gottwald (48:17)

Twenty three, yeah.


Zach Bitter (48:18)

23. Jeez, okay. So you're only 23 years old. Obviously you found success in the sport itself by doing these. It's not like you just


were


a fan of it and decided I wanna try to get in on this on the event side. You've done quite well. You were part of the big storyline around that first BPN. You own a brand, an apparel brand rapid. Now you own an event brand. So I'm just thinking about like, okay, there's it seems like you got three full time jobs all at once. Is there any give and take like that? do you have to sort of


put certain things on the back burner that normally you would maybe be a little more invested in if you were trying to really fully express yourself in order to make all these things work? Or have you found a strategy that is like reliable outsourcing that allows you to try to do it all at once at a high level?


Kim Gottwald (49:14)

So as you said, it kind of started with just the running aspect and being an athlete in a way, winning like co-winning Go Wamor, then winning the first Last Soul edition, and that kind of set everything up. So Rapid was going super well then and the last soul sort of took off. And I was already working way too much. It was pretty hard to maintain the athletic lifestyle during it because recovery was just so influenced by working.


ten to fifteen hours a day and then you need to fit your training in and then you're coming home and you just like don't sleep too good and I just realized in the past month that it's everybody who tells you well you can be a full time athlete and work a full time job or two full time jobs, they're just lying to you because it's your body


Zach Bitter (50:01)

Yeah.


Kim Gottwald (50:02)

your body can't handle it. and yeah, so in a way, as far as sacrifices go, I always love to say every single thing in life, like every single thing you you get


You have to give something for it and it goes for everything. And obviously like I'm super obsessed with what I'm doing, building rapid, building last soul, just doing this athletic stuff. But I have to admit, like if you go that deep into it and you invest everything into it, everything else kind of like well slows down and you don't have enough time for it. So yeah, right now I'm just working every single day all the time and in a way it's what I want to do.


But yeah of course it's maybe not the best, the most healthy lifestyle. And I definitely realized that I had to kinda step away from performing on the level I did before. And right now my focus is just more on building those brands and making the sport bigger in that way and not by competing in it myself. even though it's kinda tough because I have to kinda swallow my ego because I would love to race to that extent again.


But I just realized I can't train like a pro athlete and still do all this stuff full time or more than full time. And yeah, as I said, I feel like every single thing in life is a you you get something, you have to give something, and with obsession it's like you're given everything and you're maybe getting everything, but you're definitely given everything.


Zach Bitter (51:34)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a great perspective with it. And I mean you're only twenty three, so I imagine you're thinking about this through the lens of there'll be opportunities, hopefully in the future, to leverage some performance targets if you want to. I'm guessing you haven't taken that off the table entirely.


Kim Gottwald (51:52)

No, definitely not. I think right now it just the momentum is so great that I don't wanna slow like it's hard to now say, Well, I will just rest for half a year and then then we can get back into it because right now it just as I said, it just feels natural to do this world right now. It's the best moment to do it, like the best situation to do it. I wanna use that and then show what this can be and therefore yeah, I like I'm twenty three. Like the male what what is the


Best age to perform, thirty, twenty nine, something like that. Yeah.


Zach Bitter (52:25)

Yeah, I mean arguably later when you get into this format, look at like Har


Harvey Harvey Lewis gives us a lot of hope, I think, with longevity.


Kim Gottwald (52:33)

Definitely. So yeah, having having him


On the team I know okay, I can rest a bit now and then come back later.


Zach Bitter (52:39)

You've got a whole nother life worth of time ahead of


Kim Gottwald (52:41)

Yeah.


Zach Bitter (52:41)

you still. That's awesome. Well, Kim, this has been a really fun chat. I'm really excited to see what you keep doing and kind of following along. before I let you go, is there anything you want to share that you got going on? You've got the rapid apparel, the last soul ultra stuff. Anything else that's exciting that you want to let us know about?


Kim Gottwald (53:06)

No, it's tough to say not really. But yeah, as you said, I think so we kinda set it as our mission to really show ultra running to more people and and make the sport bigger, show what the athletes are about and just focus on storytelling and we are not the brands that just put an advertisement on your face and say like buy it or watch it or whatever. We kinda wanna convince people to buy rapid or to watch LSU and take part in LSU because the story


get some involved and they wanna follow it and they wanna be part of it. So the only thing I say is watch those U live streams. Like I wanna convince you of what we do. Look at what we put out with Rapid, with which w athletes were working and what they were doing. And if you then decide to look at our stuff, buy something, I'm more than happy, but yeah, I wanna convince you first.


Zach Bitter (54:00)

Awesome. Well that's exciting. I would say to all the listeners to go check out the most recent reel you released with the next stage for last Last Soul Ultra. I think that'll get people motivated and excited about the future.


Kim Gottwald (54:11)

Definitely. Thank you so much for having me on. It was a pleasure.


Zach Bitter (54:14)

Absolutely it was great to check Kim.


Kim Gottwald (54:16)

Thank you.