Episode 494: Developing As An Ultramarathon Runner | Lotti Brinks

Lotti Brinks is a rising star in the sport of trail ultramarathon. She has improved year over year, which recently resulted in finishing 5th at the 2026 WSER 100. She joins the show to discuss history with the sport of running, introduction to the sport of ultramarathon, becoming a professional athlete with Hoka, the growing trend of race day optimization with team training camps, and how she has shaped her mindset to stay balanced in life outside of being a professional runner. 

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Episode Transcript:

All right. Lotti, welcome to the show. I'm excited to be here. I wish it was in person, but we just talked about that. Yeah. Maybe at some point in the future. Absolutely, yeah. When you're back in Austin for a bit, we'll have to have you back on and chat about more. I'm sure there'll be plenty of things we don't get to on this episode, and things that'll happen between now and then that we can chat about.

So we'll have to plan on part two before we even finish part one. Yeah. I'm always down Cool. And then for the listeners that aren't watching, I've got Nicole here co-hosting this one with me. We were joking around before I hit record that Nicole co-hosts about 1% of the podcast episodes. So Lotti was one of the, one of the ones that she picked to jump in on.

So we've got a three-person episode here, but we're gonna dive into Lotti's training background and her awesome performance at Western States. Nicole, how are you feeling about it all? Well, I'm always Lotti's super fan, and as well as Kerith, her sister-in-law, so just so proud, and it's-- I'm amazed at how fast Lotti covered that distance because, you know, I've done that race a number of times, and she smoked what I would've ever done there.

So it's very cool to watch. Thanks, Nicole. Yeah. Lotti, we're, we're excited to talk to you for, for me anyway, f- a couple reasons, 'cause I was, I was listening to a lot of your, your interviews that you've done so far, and there seems to be quite a bit of stuff around just kinda pre-race interviews, post-race interviews, kinda more around the specific event you did, and I didn't find a lot with just kind of your whole story.

So- Mm-hmm ... maybe if you don't mind, we could just jump in and chat a little bit about what your background in running is. How did you kinda get into running at, at, at first? Where did that go, and then how did that take you into the ultra-running world eventually? Yeah. I started running in high school in Germany.

It was-- We don't really have high school sports in Germany. It's not like how it is here where you have big teams, and you pick a sport, and you do it. It's more so it's all essentially club sports. And my biology teacher and chemistry teacher at the time, he just happened to be, like, a volunteer coach at one of the clubs.

So he kind of put that bug in my ear that I should try that out, and I ended up joining that club, and I was the, the only distance runner in that, in that track and field club there. Yeah, lots of decathletes and heptathletes and jumpers and sprinters and, and no one wanted to run for more than 400 meters with me.

So it was a fun time, but I was doing most of my training by myself. But what happened through that was that I went to German Nationals for I think it was the 1500, maybe the 3K. And there was a scouting agency there that approached me and was like, "Hey you're, I guess, a decent runner. Would you wanna go to the Uni- United States on a scholarship to run?"

And I didn't really have a set in stone plan after high school. I was just gonna-- My idea was like, "Oh, I'll graduate. I'll take a gap year and travel, and then I will study something in Germany." So when they approached me about it, I was like, "Oh, great." It's essentially a free gap year where I can travel to the United States and have a fun time, and I get to run.

So I took it, and I interviewed with a bunch of schools, eventually landing on SCAD, the Savannah College of Art and Design in Savannah, Georgia. And yeah, started, started studying industrial and product design there and started running. It's an NAIA school, so it's not necessarily what I-- You know, like when, when you watch movies about American colleges as a teenager in Germany, you like envisioning those huge campuses and like you essentially envision like New York, LA or like one of the big cities.

Savannah was not like that. It's a very artsy little town, and the college is very dispersed. But it was a really fun experience, and I ended up loving it. I loved my major. I loved running at SCAD. It was a fun team. And my, my originally planned like one year gap year turned into a whole bachelor degree and me finishing school there.

That's how it started. How did you end up in Austin then? Yeah, so after... Well, in school I met my now husband, Aaron, who most-- he kind of grew up all over the place, but the majority of his high school years was in Austin, and his parents are still there. So he graduated a year before me and moved back to Austin.

And then after I graduated from SCAD, I got a job in Austin too, so I moved essentially to him. At that point, I wasn't running anymore, though. I got pretty injured in my last, like year and a half in college. So I actually swapped over to the cycling team, which was nice 'cause I could just kinda like-- my scholarship was still kind of working, but on a different team in a way.

So I ended up riding bikes a lot towards the end of my college career, and then did that in Austin too for a while until I kind of fell back in love with running during the pandemic. And that's really when my, when my, my like trail running and like the long-distance stuff kinda kicked off, 'cause that was kind of a time for me to...

I mean, there wasn't much to do during the pandemic. So I-- and I feel like a lot of people probably were in the same boat, where you just wanted to be outside and explore, 'cause there wasn't mu-much else to do. So me and Kerith, my sister-in-law, Kerith Arnold, she was also in Austin at the time, mm, with her family, 'cause we were all kind of in our like COVID bubble, I guess, together for a summer.

We started exploring the Austin trails and golf courses, and we were just like seeing how far we can run, if we can make it from point A to point B. And that's, that's really how the trail running part and the long-distance part of running started for me. I do have to ask, 'cause you mentioned cycling, you're not just a hobby cyclist.

I've seen your Instagram page, and I've seen some videos you've put up where you're going off some pretty large ramps on a mountain bike. So- ... you've, you've clearly kept that in the rotation a little bit, I imagine? Yeah. It kind of went from, you know, growing up I rode mountain bikes with my family, then that kind of fizzled out when I went to college 'cause there are no mountains in Savannah.

It-- I didn't bring my mountain bike. Neither Austin is not that great for mountain biking either, so mountain biking kind of fizzled out. I picked up the road bike in college, and then I rode a lot of road. Was, was pretty successful there too and made it to nationals, was, like, the runner-up in nationals.

It was good, but it was on the road. And then I moved to-- After Austin, I moved to Boise, and Boise is mountain bike paradise, so then mountain biking came back into the picture. So it's like it was there, it went away, it came back, and I mean, I absolutely love it. Anything on two wheels is just really fun.

Yeah. Nicole, I don't wanna- No, I think Lotti's a jack-of-all-trades, which is impressive, and I love that you continue to maintain a career as well. So tell us your perspective there. Do you like balancing running and, and your job, your mountain biking? I, I like that you have a lot of multifaceted approaches to racing.

I think it helps me to have a lot of things going on. It-- Not necessarily that-- I don't necessarily feel like I need to keep myself busy, 'cause that kind of happens on its own. I, I don't remember the last time I was just bored. That doesn't, doesn't happen. That's not a feeling I'm familiar with.

But I love being challenged and building things. Build- And building things can be anything it's building fitness, building software, building something actually with my hands doing textile art. It's- I just like to have a lot of different things where I can challenge myself and improve.

You know, I always kinda wanna see what else I can do better. And even if I'm, like, not good at something in the beginning, I'm always curious to see what, what would it take for me to be great at it, and that's kinda what keeps me going. And I think especially with running, like at this point, running, I, I love running, and it brings me so much joy, but in a way it's also a job now, and I wanna make sure that I don't put- while it is a job, I don't wanna put too much pressure on it, because I know that I perform better when I'm having fun.

And I like to kind of distribute the pressure amongst, like, all the things that I'm doing versus just putting pressure on one single thing. And that's why it helps to also have mountain biking going on, and my day job going on, and my creative hobbies happening. So it's kind of more evenly distributed, and there's not, not just one thing that's my whole life I love that.

I think that's so refreshing. And you are, like, I know you are so good at building, so even just a testament to what is behind you, your ability to do so many things, Lotti, that's so impressive. Your, again, I guess t- tell us a little bit more about that hobby behind you in terms of your, your design, because I think that's very impressive.

Yeah. So I mentioned that I went to design school, where I studied industrial design, which is essentially like physical product design. My professional career, as in my day job, has developed more into the marketing world. I head up marketing for a software company. So in my day job, I don't actually get to actively create with my hands anymore.

So me and my husband, we kind of started our own little design and creative studio where we kind of like, we get to design and create whatever we want, and a lot of it is just like custom things that people ask us to do. I'm mostly on the soft goods side, I wanna say. I do everything textile-related, crafting, embroidery, sewing.

Aaron does all mostly metalworking. We both do woodworking. We do some pottery stuff. And it all kind of works together. He might make a structure for something, and I add the textile part of it. So we have our own little creative studio between my office and his garage where we just make things.

I, like Nicole said, I really have that balance too. It's one thing I've thought about, you know, being in the sport of ultramarathon and watching it get more and more professional over the years are two things. One, how do you balance that so that, like you mentioned, you have those outlets that allow for you to escape from all the ins and outs of training and racing and the pressure of all of that?

And then I also wonder, too, about just kind of the mental versus physical element that I think is kind of unique with ultramarathoning. I mean, we're out there for such a long period of time. You really can't physically experience race day the way you maybe can in shorter distance stuff, where you can do a workout that gets pretty close, or in a sport that is more of a team sport, you can simulate games and things like that.

In ultrarunning, you're doing a lot of guesswork with how things are gonna be mentally. So my thought sometimes is, how do you train that mental side of things in a way that you can keep your brain on for long periods of time and dose things in that aren't gonna beat your body up when your body gets to its limit, but allow you to kind of build that mental side of things like that?

So when I see people like yourself have these, these hobbies, jobs, and things that are going to kinda give you ability to stretch your mind in other ways, I do wonder how much that impacts your ability to, when it gets really difficult, feel like you have reserve there versus feeling like, you know, you can just turn your brain off for hours and hours during the day every day and maybe not exercise it that way.

I think it makes a-- For me, it makes a big difference. I-- It's kind of funny because I feel like, I don't know, not too long ago, like maybe three years ago, most people still had a job on top of running. Now it's completely different. If you look at the top ten in Western States I-- there are not many people who still have a full-time job.

So it's really interesting to see the sport just growing and professionalizing to a point where people can do it full-time. For me, though, I draw a lot of energy from these other buckets of my life. Yes, it's also draining energy. I'm not gonna lie, like, when I'm at training camp, and I have back-to-back-to-back 30-mile long runs I would ra-rather just run and then just lay on the couch after and not have to pull up my laptop and work.

But f- most of the time, I think it's really good for me to not even think about running, and, and that's like ev- That's my everyday life. I get my run done. I enjoy my run. Like, when I run, it's like I'm focused on running. I don't really think about work. It's just like I'm just enjoying every step, and then I'm done with running, and then I'm onto the next thing.

And I think that's helpful before races too, like- I don't know, like at Gorge, for example, like I was-- I brought my mountain bike and we were just riding the trails outside of Hood River me and my husband, for the three, four days leading up to the race. And I don't spend a single minute stressing out about the race because I'm so focused on riding my bike and having fun there that I don't stress out about what's to come.

And I think that gives me the mental head space during the race that I have, like, all that. This sounds silly, but I have, like, all that energy for running saved up that I can then spend on running, that I don't waste beforehand just thinking about running. Does that make sense? It's like-- And it's the same with work.

I usually work all the way a day or two before a race, and I just focus on that. And then when it's actually race day or time to run, I have all that mental energy and room to think about running while I run, and not before. Yeah. No, it makes sense to me. I think when you can turn off the kind of pre-race anxiety with some distraction- Mm

that isn't physically fatiguing to you, that is a great way to spend that time. So it sounds like you've filled those gaps nicely. Yeah. I mean, even just surrounding myself with people who are not in the trail running bubble, if that's my mountain bike friends or my work colleagues. I mean, yes, they know about my running, and they totally support it, and they love it, but they're not part of that hype bubble.

So it's nice for me to be able to just go into these other worlds and focus on other things and not stress out about a race, and not have people you know hype me up too much before it's actually time.

Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's really cool. And in the spirit of building, I do have some stuff I wanted to ask you about, the building that's been going on throughout your ultrarunning career, because I think you've presented a really cool, unique example of just the consistency and the dedication and what can happen when you apply that.

So I was looking at some of the races that you've done over the years, and you've given us the opportunity to do some nice comparators between some very recognizable races that you've done more than once. So I picked three. I'm just gonna share them with you. I'm sure you know them, but just so you have the context, and then I wanna hear kind of about your thought process throughout that, where we have the CCC race, part of the UTMB series.

Your first time doing that, you ran 13:25. Then you went back and did it again and ran 12:02, so you took well over an hour off of that time. Gorge Waterfalls, 100K is another one you've done a few times, and you started out with a 10:10 there, then went down to 9:53, and then down to 9:06 with a course record.

And then Western States was another one. You did your debut at Western States, ran 18:53, and then this year, the race that we're gonna chat about a bit today, you brought that all the way down over three hou- over, over three and a half hours down to 16:04. So to me, that looks like you-- two things maybe were going on.

You learn a course, and then you really do a very, very nice job of applying what you learned from it and making improvements, and two, just what you're doing in between races and training and developing over time is clearly working quite well. But I'd love to hear your perspective of it all. Yeah. It's, it's funny you reading them all out loud, like, all I can think about is oh, there were, like, a few minutes that I could have squeezed to then get under the next hour barrier.

Every single one 12:02, 9:06, and 16:04, I was so close to just getting under the next hour. So I guess I have to go back to every single one of them. We'll have another data set next year. Exactly. I think, yes, so part of it is getting comfortable with the course and knowing the course. I think that's a huge benefit.

I think what's even more so important is to actually sit and kind of think about how you felt throughout the race and how your body felt on what-- the section of the course that you're on 'cause you can you can pre-run any race essentially, but I think it's different if you pre-run it or race it because after each of those races, I crossed the finish line, and I knew at every single one of them I have more to give here because this mile I did that, or maybe I could have pushed harder mile, I don't know, 52.

Maybe I could have run this downhill harder. And those are only things that you really know if you've done the whole thing in one push. And I think part of it is-- part of why I improved so much in each of those races is that I had this belief that even on a good day, I can still be better.

CCC in 2024 was a good day. I finished ninth in my I don't know, 13:20 time. It was not a bad day. I was, like, really happy with that race, but I crossed the finish line, I'm like, "I can do that better." And then I wanted to go back. It's the same with Gorge. Every time I went back to Gorge, I knew every single time I ran Gorge, it was a good day.

It was never like-- I was never disappointed with my race, but I always crossed the finish line knowing I had more to give. And then I go back to the drawing board. I'm like, "Where can I find minutes? Where can I do better? What else can I do?" And that, along with just, like- Building fitness and training and being consistent, and also just believing and kind of believing that I belong at the front, that has made a huge difference.

Practicing being in competitive races, practicing running up front, telling myself that I can run course record times, those are things that really make a huge difference, especially in races that are extremely competitive like CCC, like Western States, where I know that it could be anyone's day, but it could just as well be my day.

And I think that both that analytical part, the mental part, and then just the actual physical training, those three things are what eventually allowed me to shave my times down that much. Well, and just building off of that, you mentioned training of course, and I would love to get more of a sense, because that's something that has definitely changed a lot recently and I think it's very cool.

So I know you've done significant stints on the course before the race or in course-specific environments. Have you felt like that has, has really been advantageous to your approach? Again, you now live in Idaho, so you have good training there. Do you think it's, it's the course specificity, or is it the people that you're training with to push you, or a combination?

But I would love to get a sense of that because I think that's very cool to watch. I think it's both. I didn't train on the Western States course this year for Western States, but I knew the course because I've run the whole race before, and I've been to the Memorial Day training camp in '24. So I knew the course, and I knew what to expect, and then I could just talk to my coach and model my training to be specific to the course.

So we did a lot of back-to-back 1,500-foot climbs to mimic the canyons. We did a lot of just long, pounding downhills. We did, we did stuff like that where I can-- And I, I practice that during my runs that I know, okay, I have three 1,500-foot climbs. I'm, like, envisioning myself in the canyons right now.

And then I pre- I essentially, I pretend to run the course where I have similar terrain, similar elevation gain, similar technicality, and then I just, I just think about, like, how I want to feel on that section of the course and run it accordingly. And I think that's really helpful. I'd be curious to hear a bit about the kind of training camps.

Mm-hmm. I know HOKA's been doing a lot more of that recently with their athlete team, which you're part of, and I think that's just some trend that we're gonna see continue, and more brands are gonna do more of it, and they're gonna hyper-focus on, you know, some of the n- races that they find important. So was there-- I'd just like to hear kind of how it was all structured, 'cause I know all the athletes probably came in with maybe a, a range of coaches, a range of strategies.

Was that something where there was a, a framework put in place for all of you, or was it a little bit more we've got a big group of people here, kinda self-serve with what you need, but we're gonna give you all the tools and the transportation and whatnot? It was mostly the latter. We all had different training plans.

We all have different coaches. HOKA was really great that they-- we essentially had two Airbnb, -bies almost right next to each other where all the athletes live. HOKA was planning a lot of the meals. We had lots of team dinners and stuff like that. But the training itself was really up to us, and the athletes coordinated where it made sense to run together.

And it's, it's really cool to see how we all have the same goal. We all go to training camp trying to prepare as best as we can to win Western States, and we all showed up w- try- like, ready to work hard and ready to get the best out of ourselves, but we all do it in different ways, and I think that's, I think that's really cool to see.

I mean, at this point, I feel like a lot of people are doing-- like, regardless of men or women, for Western States did a lot of high-mileage training, a lot of volume. But the way people execute it is just interesting how people do it differently. Some people do a lot of doubles. My teammate, mate Martina did a lot of bikes, just indoor bikes with a heat suit.

Some other people did a lot-- like, a lot more birds, a lot more slow miles. I did a lot of mixing fast tempo marathon-type work with slower birdy days. It's just a lot of different training styles, but all working towards the same goal. Yeah, that's interesting. I would love to hear just a little bit about your strategy in general.

Are you doing-- I'm, I'm guessing, like, when you get closer to a race like Western States, you're, you're speaking with the specifics like you mentioned. I know you said back-to-back 30-mile long runs and things like that. Mm-hmm. W- what's, what's it look like before you kinda get to that peaking phase? Are you working on shorter interval stuff or anything like that at any point during the season?

Yeah. I like to keep speed work in the mix almost at all times. It's-- I feel like it's good for just turnover and my general fitness, but more so it gives me really good confidence. Knowing that I can put down pretty good volume and high mileage but still retain my leg speed, that gives me a ton of confidence, especially in races where I know there are sections that I have to run fast.

I had one workout that was like a 20, 22 maybe mile long run with two by 30 minutes at tempo pace. And knowing that I can put down like 5:40s, 5:45s at altitude makes me feel really confident that I can run fast at Western States, 'cause I'm never gonna need to run like a 5:40 mile at Western States, so anything, anything at the actual race then is gonna feel much slower and much more controlled.

So for me, I like to, I like to sprinkle in a lot of that kind of stuff. I usually do at least one fast flat workout a week just to get some pep in the legs and run fast. But then I also do a lot of hill reps and uphill stuff. For Western States, there was also a good focus on downhill work to kind of shred the quads a little bit.

We tried to do that every, I wanna say every two or three weeks we had a really intense downhill to really get sore, get my quads really sore to kind of build that fatigue resistance. And that is something that we, we started that I think like nine weeks out or something like that.

Almost essentially right after Gorge. We wanted to make sure that my quads are strong. I feel com-confident and comfortable running downhill for a long time. I retain my leg speed, and from there on we kind of build volume. And then once I got to Flagstaff, the first-- And I was in Flagstaff for I wanna say three or four weeks.

The first week was essentially just maintaining volume. We didn't want to-do anything crazy. We, I wanted, we wanted to make sure I adapt to altitude. We-- I didn't even do heat training the first week. I just wanted to adapt to altitude. And then the second week, second and third week, we were just upping the volume without doing too much intensity, and then we put intensity back in.

So essentially it was like one, one acclimat-acclimatization week, then two weeks building volume, and the second week of volume we started putting more intensity into it. And then we kind of, did another week or so of that where we peaked, where I peaked out, and then from there on it was just coasting and then tapering to race week.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. I like to hear it. It's always fun to hear what people were doing preparing for it- Yeah ... and where they went to do it. I know Flagstaff has become a popular spot to prepare for Western States. I think Jim even said, "Hey, it's better than training on the course," 'cause you get everything just a notch more difficult.

Yeah. I do also think there is something special to it, like saving the course for race day. I, like again, like I said earlier, it's really helpful to know the course, and I 100% believe that. It's really good to know what you're getting yourself into, and just building that kind of, good juju on the course.

But I also think there's something to it to not overdo pre-running the course, 'cause it kind of takes a little bit of that magic away. I wanna keep a little bit of the magic for the actual race, and that's why I like it. I really love training in Flagstaff. 'Cause it was, like, close enough, but it wasn't the actual trail.

You know? So Lotti, what were your peak weeks of training? I think my biggest week was 125, 130 miles maybe, and I did maybe two of those. But I had probably five or six weeks at 100 miles, and that is, that is a good bit for me. I usually stay closer to the 80-mile range. So I definitely did kick up the volume a little bit for Western States training.

And did you have some dog-assist miles? Because that's my favorite part. I miss running with you and Atlas, and Minnie definitely misses you guys. Although we would be dragging quite a bit behind, I think I saw that Atlas was there with you training. He was. A- Atlas came on almost all easy and long runs with me.

Flagstaff is really dog-friendly, which is lovely, and we were right, we were maybe a quarter mile away from the trail, so most of it was off leash for Atlas, which he loves. Bummer for me because it's really fun when he runs on a leash, 'cause he pulls me along, and it's great, 'cause I run much faster that way.

Well- So, yeah ... I love watching you and Atlas run. So if, for those of you that don't know, Lotti, tell us a- more about Atlas, because such a cute training partner. Atlas is my German Shorthaired Pointer. He is six years old. He loves running. It's his favorite thing, and I almost, I almost take him on, take him on every run, as long as it's not crazy hot out.

And I, he was with me in Flagstaff the whole entire time. He got to meet all of my teammates, and we all had fun with him running. I did, Atlas has raced with me twice. We did one 5K in Austin, which is still our 5K PR. It's like, I think, 15:02 or something like that, which I would never run that fast without him.

And then we did 50K in Utah once. That was also super fun. But yeah, he's a great running buddy. He is, he kind of, he was kind of over it after I did a back-to-back-to-back long run, 'cause he, it was, like, three days off I don't know the exact numbers. It was maybe 25 miles, 35 miles, 20 miles or something like that, and he ran the first two with me, and then on the last day of the long runs, I walked up to him with his harness, and he was like, "No thank you," walked away.

"You go out by yourself." So- Well- Yeah. We found his- And I, I love, Atlas would definitely, Atlas and Lotti would definitely- beats Zach and Minnie at the the Sunshine Runs. So- I was gonna say, we, we need to, we need to bring you in for the Sunshine Run. Minnie and I have been trying to win that for three years.

We've been second, third, and fourth. So we need someone- It's so fun ... to come in and just clean up. And I don't know, Zach, do you remember that Atlas is who ... Atlas and Lottie taught Minnie to run when we first adopted her- Yep ... because they really would run with Minnie on her first runs around Circle C, and I think Minnie was a little afraid of Atlas, but- Yeah

I definitely learned how to run on the leash. And, Lottie gave Minnie her first dog leash. So- Yeah. Yeah ... I think we just finally- Well, hopefully ... moved on to a different one, but that was Minnie's first leash from Lottie and Atlas. Yeah. Atlas can be a little intimidating. Maybe Minnie just learned to run away from Atlas, and that's how she learned how to- To be fair, Minnie was afraid of just about everything back then.

Yeah. So I'm sure Atlas wasn't bad. No, it wasn't, it wasn't Atlas. It was a Minnie thing. Yeah. Aw. Cool. Well, I did wanna jump into the race. Mm-hmm. So you were fifth place at Western States this year. I felt like this year going into Western States, I mean, there's so much pre-race hype and pre-ma- pre-race predictions and things like that.

It seemed like the Gorge Waterfalls race, where you broke the course record there, really put you on people's radars to some degree w- that were mentioning you in their predictions and things that, maybe , had not the year prior. And you very much delivered, I think, on expectations with respect to that.

And it seemed like following the live stream all day too, you made kind of a conscious effort to stay relatively attached to that, you know, that top 10 group. In fact, I think you were, m- you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were kind of in that group pretty much all day long. Yeah, just tell us a little bit about the strategy going in, like what were your thoughts about potential?

Was it something where you were trying to separate yourself from thinking about what you had to do versus what everyone else was gonna do? Or were you thinking, "I wanna stay with a group of people to, you know, stay connected," so to speak? Yeah. I definitely wanted to stay connected and in the mix.

I went into that race feeling really confident about my training, confident about just my health generally. I have-- I haven't had any injuries in the past year, year plus which I draw a lot of confidence from. So between that and just really having some really good workouts and good back-to-back long runs, I felt ready, and I was excited, and I wanted to be in the mix.

And I also know that at this point in women's ultra running and women's trail running, you have to, you have to expect to run course record pace if you wanna be at the front. It's just every single race. People break course records, like somehow. It's just like you kind of just have to expect that.

So going into the race, I felt confident. I was like, I wanna run at the front. People have been asking me like all week before the race "What's the goal?" And like I kind of, I answered it the same way every single time, that the goal is to win. We're professional runners. Like I'm not, I'm not actively like starting a race to lose, you know?

Like I wanna win. And that doesn't mean that I'm going to win. I want to win, and I'm gonna do my best to put myself in a good position to make that happen, and that's essentially what I did. Like me, I just want to be in the mix, running strong, running comfortably. Like the high country was beautiful.

I enjoyed it so much. I love the high country. And I was, like the leaders, we were all like in a pack. Like I could see everyone just within, everyone was in, within sight. There was no, like elastic was not broken until further back. I came into Robinson Flat probably in the, I wanna say back half of the top 10, probably like seventh-ish.

And then I made my first move out of Robinson Flat because it is pretty long, very runnable, almost like a double track for a while before it turns back into a single track. I think it's almost like a half marathon that's very fast. So I passed a bunch of people there, and that's where, that's where I really was like, this, this is a move.

Like I, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna see if I can, like how many people I can catch. And then just before Last Chance, so just before the canyons, I got word that I was running, 'cause I, I passed my teammate Hayden who had a bit of a, he was injured. He had a bit of a tough time, so he told me that I was in third, and that gave me a good boost through the canyons.

And then I was kind of working, 'cause we were like still, we were so packed together. Jen and Riley had a little bit of a gap. But then like me and Marianne, we were essentially running together all the way from Last Chance to Cal 2, I wanna say. So there was a lot of like third, fourth, and Tara came, then Tara was gone again.

It was just like a lot of movement. It was a very exciting race. So yeah, I very consciously put myself in the front and wanted to still be within striking distance. Like I never, I didn't, like I never gave up on the podium until the very end when I knew that the ship had sailed. But I was running all day just focused forward, not focused backward.

Like I wanted to see how far up I can run. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah. I- i- in a race like this year, I, the, one of the unique things that stood out was there was just s- such little space between a lot of the women. And, you know, people who've proven themselves at many courses in the past too, so, you know, it had to have been exciting to be going back and forth with a lot of them over the day.

Yeah. W- was there a spot during the race where you felt like you had a, your weakest spot where you were just maybe a little less confident feeling like the wheels were maybe coming off a little bit? Or was everything fairly consistent over the course of the day within your energy levels and all that?

There was definitely a-

Around like Green Gate, I was feeling pretty low on energy. I'm still trying to figure out why. I think part of it, and this sound, this is silly, like I ran out of Forest Hill hyped. I mean, Forest Hill has such a vibe. It's just, it gives you so much energy, and you can carry that energy on the trail with you.

And I was like trying to chase Mary Anne down all on Cal Street, and I was feeling great. I was feeling phenomenal, and I was just like pounding my gels, and they went down no problem. But I had it, and I, I, I don't, I need to talk to my sports scientist about this 'cause I'm not entirely sure what the science is behind this, but I'm...

Like I had it planned out to take 90 grams of carbs per hour. I don't know exactly how long that section took me, probably like two, two and a half hours or something like that, but I s- ate all of my gels, like 100 and, I don't know, 200 something grams of carbs in the first hour somehow. But like I made it to Cal 2, and I got w- like wanted to grab a gel and I was like just completely out.

So while I had a lot of preloaded carbs, 'cause I was just excited and they were tasting good, I'm like, "Oh, I'll have another one," I then ended up running from Cal 2 to the river without any more fuel. So I had it in my system I guess, but I think it was more like mentally that I got to the river and I was like, "Oh my God, it just went like an hour and a half."

Like I don't know how much it actually was, something like that. I just went a really long time without a gel. So I think part of it, I don't know how much of it was physical and how much w- of it was mental, but I was just like somehow "Oh no," "I need to fuel." And then I had a gel and it was perfectly fine, but I, that was definitely my lowest point, like running up to Green Gate where I was like, "Oh God," "I better catch up again."

But yeah, that is the only really low point that I can think of. And it got hard eventually. You know, like it's never, 100 miles, I feel like the last 15 miles, if they're not hard, you're probably Doing it wrong. I don't know. But they were, like, they were not easy, but they were still fun. I was having a nice time.

Kerith was pacing me. And it was really cool to just take off aid stations and run through aid stations with the sun still being up. Because in 2024, I essentially ran-- Yeah, I picked up my headlamp at the river 'cause I wasn't gonna make it to P- to Pointed Rocks in daylight. So I ran for hours with my headlamp.

This year I just ran through all these aid stations that were dark in 2024 to me in perfect visibility, you know? And that, that was really cool, and that gave me a lot of confidence. I ne- I didn't actually know what time I was running because I accidentally paused my watch when I did a pack swap, so I was, like, missing a bunch of miles, and I was like, "I, I have no idea where I'm at anymore."

But just knowing that I'm passing through all these aid stations in daylight, that was a good confidence booster. I knew that we were gonna run a fast time Mm-hmm. You, you prompted one of the questions I wanted to ask you about, because one of my favorite things after these races is when Precision publishes the, the athlete- Mm

data for nutrition. Yeah. And when they started rolling some of those out, yours caught my eye for some of the things you mentioned. First of all, you averaged 90 grams of carbs per hour, which I'm sure there's other people out there that hit that high or higher on the women's field, but that's a pretty high average from what I've seen a lot of times from the women's field.

So I wanted to ask you about that strategy, how you came to that number. Yeah, may- maybe just a little bit about that, and then also you added a little context to that with your, your story of overdoing it for a little bit, a little bit after, 'cause I think that's a really interesting piece to this puzzle, where it does seem like it's easy to think of these fuel-- carb fueling strategies as oxidation questions of, "I'm gonna oxidize this many carbs at this intensity, therefore I need to hit this."

Mm-hmm. But we've-- we're getting more and more evidence that there's more to it than that. There's maybe a central nervous system stimulant thing from carbohydrate intake. So it's possible that, yeah, you had all those carbohydrates in your stomach, but you were missing some of that kind of brain stimulus of actually- Yeah

putting the carbohydrate in for that stretch of time, and that's why you noticed that, that low point. But it's cool that you're thinking about those things, 'cause I'm sure- Yeah ... it'll yield faster times in the future. Yeah. I mean, it's w- it's interesting. And this is something that I just, like-- It's w- kind of what I mentioned earlier, like when I finished-- I had a great day at Western States, and I'm really happy with my race.

But I, I then sit with it. I'm like, "Ah," "what could I have done differently to run faster?" And I definitely think that I can run the last 20 miles faster, and that's o- the only reason why I was, like, thinking about it more "Hmm, I guess I did run out of gels, even though I had a ton of carbs in me."

So that makes me think that-- And I had no stomach problems. That makes me think that I could probably even up my carb intake. At least I would have wanted to on Cal Street, 'cause it-- they were just going down well. And I should talk to my scientist about this. But yeah, my strategy was essentially the same that I did at CCC and at Gorge.

That is a strategy that has worked for me, that I've practiced. I know that I can have 90 grams of carbs per hour. And it does, it fluctuates. Sometimes I would take 100 in a section, and then I would take 80 in another. And eventually evens out around 90. I do-- And I'm, I'm very- I'm very methodical with it.

I'm really good at sticking to a plan. Like, when I, when I know that I have X amount of gels to eat, I will eat them. And every time I've made that mistake before, that's part of what happened in 2024, that I got really emotional, and then I'm like, "Oh, what does it matter anyway?" I'm not gonna eat this gel 'cause it's already going downhill.

Now I know that y- if you're having a low, that's even more so a reason to eat another gel. And I, I think between not just hitting my carb numbers, but also I had a ton of salt caps. I'm a very salty sweater, so I was replacing a lot of my sodium. And then also kind of strategically adding caffeine has helped a ton in that I have a pretty high caffeine intake from what I h- I'm hearing at least.

People are telling me it's a lot. It's, to me I don't even... in races, I don't know I just eat the gel that I have, and if, if it has caffeine in it, great. But I work with my sports scientist at Precision to kind of figure out if, for example, I have a climb coming up that I know in 15 minutes I have a steep climb, then I'll take a caffeinated gel.

Any time where I'm like I might need an extra boost for this," I make sure that I take caffeine. And the salt caps, I- I'm so salt- I'm very salty of a sweater, so I really can't overdo it. So we're, like, I do both salt caps, I have electrolytes in my drink mix. Sometimes I have a fizzy drink that's also with electrolytes.

So I think we've dialed in my strategy pretty well to a point where I feel pretty confident about it. I know that it's gonna go down, and I know that I can hit 90 grams of carbs without any gut dis- Do you know how many milligrams of caffeine you took in? You won't scare anyone. David Roche has been on the podcast, so...

I can look up the... I think they measure it by body weight or something. I think it was, like, 16-something, 16-something milligrams. 1,600 maybe? Let me find it. It is interesting, 'cause just like electrolytes, that's another one that is a range, and for one person to do what another person does can be digestively problematic with caffeine too.

But if you're a high responder to it, then you can probably go pretty high, I would imagine. Yeah, I don't even know what this means in the Precision thing, but it says 16.1 milligrams per kilogram. I don't know if that- Oh, okay. So they- ... half Gotcha. Yeah, okay. So they were, they were doing... Do you... Yeah.

Yeah. I, I... That... So they were, they were probably just formulating it to, to, like... Basically, the way they look at caffeine in most endurance sports is that three to six milligrams per kilogram of body weight is a performance dose. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of extrapolation with ultrarunning, 'cause I think a lot of that stuff was developed for more traditional endurance events, where it ends up being quite a bit of caffeine at one point.

So some people will find they like, like they like that performance, but they have to do it less frequently- Mm-hmm ... because it's a long race, and you don't necessarily wanna be- Mm ... doing that every hour. But some people will just do smaller doses and still end up with quite a bit of caffeine over the course, but not quite up to that, that total range per, per dose.

But yeah, it's an interesting topic. Yeah. It's... I, I could never... caffeine never caused me any problems, and I feel like it does help me. So yeah, I don't know. Almost every other gel I ta- take has some caffeine in it. Are you using the Precision PF 90 gels or PF 30 gels with caffeine then, or?

Yeah, I do the PF 90 gels, and the 30 ones with caffeine, and then I supplement some other brands for just flavor fatigue. And I like- Sure ... cola-flavored gels, and they just always have caffeine in them. So regardless of what brand I... I've tried GU, I've tried Enervit. Every single Coca-Cola-flavored gel has 100 milligrams of caffeine essentially.

So that always makes it in the mix, too. Nicole, you need to do the Coca-Cola job for me. I know. I didn't realize there were these out there. I'm like, that is my favorite thing ever. Gosh. I- that's why I was looking at him like, "Why have you not told me about this?" I'm so old, I didn't even know these existed.

I agree. Yeah, the, the fu- the fueling game has gotten a lot more impressive the last few years, for sure. So it's fun to hear the specifics and how everyone's tracking it all and distributing it over the course. So, yeah, it sounds like you nailed that aspect of it, for the most part. Yeah. I agree. I'm, I'm very curious about the, like-- And again, I should I should check with my, my team about this, but I'm very curious about the Cal Street phenomenon, that I had- Mm-hmm

so many carbs early, 'cause I was just stoked on my gels. Well- And, like- ... when you come to Austin, you will report back. Yeah. That's the follow-up. Yeah, we'll- we got a question for part two already. Dive into that. Or is it Emily you work with at Precision for the- Yeah ... nutrition stuff? Okay. Yeah. Yeah, she's great.

Yeah. I'm sure she'll have some thoughts. Yeah. I haven't talked to her about it. I, I mean, I talked to her about the general nutrition and how it went down the day after the race, but I haven't. I haven't talked to her since I've sat with it for a while and thought about every section.

So I'll bring it up to her and see what she thinks. Cool. Awesome. Yeah, Nicole, do you have anything? I'm- I don't wanna hog all the questions- No ... if you wanna jump in at all. No, you go. Yeah, so when, when you find- when you finished, what was the first thing that went through your mind with respect to just everything that was going on?

Was it just kind of pretty surreal, or was it relief? Did you have any emotion that stood out to you? As I was running down Robie Point, that was the first time all races where I was, like, looking back. The whole race I was focused on what's happening in front of me and chasing. Going down Robie Point, I'm like, "Oh, God," "I'm so close," "I would hate for someone to catch me right now."

So I crossed the finish line with some-- I mean, there was, like, no one for, I don't know, probably 10 minutes behind me. But I did c- I did cross the finish line. I'm like-- When I hit the track, I'm like, "Okay," "no one is taking fifth place from me. This is it." And then I crossed the finish line, and I saw 16:04, and I'm like, "Oh, I could've gone under 16."

There was, like, that little bit of "Ah, now I guess I gotta come back and run 15 hours at some point," or 15:59, I guess. But it was mostly just relief and just excitement. It, it's, it's so special with everyone waiting there for you. There's a whole crowd on the track, and your wh- my whole crew was there.

And Marianne was there, who I feel like Marianne and I shared a lot of the race together in a way that mostly I was chasing her. She was chasing me for a bit. I feel like we just traded. Marianne was the person I feel like I ran with the most, even though she did put a gap on me.

But in my mind, I was still running with her 'cause I was chasing her. So it was great to see her there. And then Tara finished, and then we all, Essentially, the top, I think it was, like, the top six, maybe the top seven, had to go straight to anti-doping, and that was an experience in itself. It's race after race.

Who can pee the fastest? I- Right. I will say I lost that race. It took me a while. But yeah, w- Yeah, you get pretty dehydrated on that course, so it's a process. Mm-hmm. But yeah, the finish line was, was great, and just the-- It's just special to your first step on the track, and then that last 300 meters is just, it's just so special.

I don't even know how to describe it. Its eyes are on you. This is your moment, and everyone is cheering. People are excited. It's just... Yeah, it's great. It's a great end to an already great day . It's still relatively recent, so I can appreciate it if you haven't given it too much thought yet, but have you thought much about what's next for you with respect to the training and race targets and all that sort of stuff?

Yeah, I have two options that I'm playing around with right now. Option one is to run CCC, but that-- For CCC, I would wanna go out early for the UTMB training camp that HOKA puts on, and spend some time training in the Alps. And I just got home after seven weeks away, and I feel like I-- between feeling like I have to show my face in the office at work, and also really just enjoying being home for a minute, I don't know if I wanna leave that soon again.

So that-- I mean, that's, that's one potential plan. The other potential plan is to do Westrupe by UTMB two weeks later in Switzerland, which looks incredible, and I kind of-- I'm kind of excited to do something new, 'cause I've done CCC twice now. Do Westrupe as kind of like an in-between race, just a 50K there, and then do the UTMB major here in the States, Kodiak, in October.

So plan one is CCC. The other plans are Westrupe and Kodiak. So we'll, we'll find out. I have to make a decision here soon because those races are not that far away. They come up quickly. They always do. Yeah, yeah. Your body's been feeling like it's been bouncing back pretty well after States, though?

Yeah, I feel good. I've gone on a couple runs so far, and everything feels fine. Energy levels are back. I get to pace Kerith at Hardrock this weekend, so I'm gonna have to at least run 28, 30 miles and not get dropped. So there was a good bit of motivation after States to recover quickly, eat a lot of food, get good sleep so I can be fit for Kerith.

And I feel like I can do it. So that's, yeah, that's what motivated me to get out the door and get recovered from the States. Cool. Awesome. Well, we're excited for you and what's coming up as well, so I really appreciate you taking some time to share everything with us. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

It's always fun. Yeah. I w- we should do this more often. It's nice to catch up, too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You're welcome anytime if you wanna come on and chat. Sometimes she's much more equipped- I know. ... and we're, we're just super fans. I am doing a news out- or, or a, a running news- Oh ... segment more often now, too, where I'm bringing in co-hosts.

So if you ever wanna jump in- Yeah ... and chat about what's in the news, you're more than welcome to co-host any of those. I'm always down to hang out and chat Awesome. Well, before we let you go, Lotti, if you wanna share with the listeners where they can find you, if you have anything like a website, social media channels or anything like that, we can also put those in the show notes.

Sweet. I think I'm just Lotti- Lotti_Brinks on, I wanna say both Instagram and Strava. Maybe Strava might just be Lotti Brinks. But Instagram and Strava are probably my two main social media platforms. I don't have a website, so find me on, find me on social media. Keep it easy for us. I'll, I'll link those in the show notes, and everyone can head over and check out what you're up to.

Like I said earlier, at least go to the Instagram account and check out some of the mountain bike ramp stuff if you're not into the running, which you probably are if you're listening to this anyway, but that's an added benefit. I don't think I've had too many guests on here that are running ultramarathons that are also launching off a mountain bike ramp, so- Yeah.

It's worth the trip ... I can't wait. That's kind of the exciting thing being done with one of the goal races is that now I can be, like, a little bit more reckless on a mountain bike, and I'm really excited for that. Just don't hurt yourself. I'll try. She's already done that. She's just tough. I know.

Oh my God, the, like- Yeah ... two days before States, we found this little pump track outside of our Airbnb, and of course I didn't have my mountain bike with me, but there was a little kids' bike in the Airbnb garage. So I took the little kids' bike and went to the pump track just for some laps.

What I failed to notice is that it didn't have a real brake, it just had a pedal brake. So, like, when you pedal backwards, you hit- Yeah ... you hit the brake. So I was just riding on the pump track, having a great time, and I got a little bit too speedy and went over one of the jumps, I guess, and hit the, the back brake by accident and went over the bars, had bloody knees- Oh

at the Western States start line, but I made it through the race. Lotti, didn't the first time we run with you, didn't you have a broken wrist or something, or didn't you break it right after? No. I feel like I don't r- I, I feel like you were running with injured and- No, for s- So- It was the very first run that we did together- Yeah

in Austin o- in the, on the Greenbelt, in the Greenbelt. Yeah. I fell right outside of Barton Springs- Yes. Oh, that's right. And broke my- That's right ... broke my knuckles. You sprain... Okay, yeah. Remember? Yeah. 'Cause I was, like, trying to find it, my, figure out what was injured, and now this all makes sense, I remember that.

Yeah. Oh. Yeah, I think if I remember right, you said we were trying to pick a route and you said, "I can do, I can do something that's not technical," so no tra- n- no technical trails. There I was, breaking my hand. Oh, I was so embarrassed. I'm like, "Oh, God, it's our first run together, and of course I break my hand."

I feel like I fall on almost every run, so. It's always the, like- Yeah ... not technical stuff- They're tough ... that gets you. Yeah, totally. Yeah. There's some sneaky ones out here for sure, so. Yeah. Not quite as steep as what you got in Boise now, but they're fun. It's still a little... You know? I feel like in Austin, like the trails are kind of chunky.

Like it's- Yeah ... all the limestone everywhere. It's- Yeah ... they're not, they don't get much bird, but it's also hard to run fast in the Green Bell, 'cause it's just- Yeah ... limestone everywhere. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Awesome, Lottie. Well, thanks again for coming on. We really appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks for having me