Episode 455: Keira D'Amato | Don't Call It A Comeback

Keira D'Amato had a promising future in running in high school and college, before stepping away for 8-years. When she returned to running, professional trajectory was not on her radar. She found new motivations and identity with running being part of her story, which lead to breaking American Records in the Full and Half Marathon. Her book, "Don't Call It A Comeback," is a great example of how success and fulfillment comes in many paths.

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Timestamps/Topics: :

00:00 Intro, Show Details & Sponsors

01:48 Welcoming Keira, Book Talk & Episode Setup

03:37 Keira's Unconventional Running Journey

08:01 Rediscovering Running & Embracing Fun

11:57 Lessons on Identity & Resilience

15:17 Advice for Young Runners & Reframing Failure

16:13 Balancing Running with Life & Longevity

20:20 The Benefits of Taking a Break

23:33 Keeping Training Fresh & Loving Competition

29:07 Adapting Training & Lower Mileage Insights

33:33 Cross-training, Consistency & Longevity

36:53 Strava, Humor, and Community in Running

39:33 Strength Training and Recovery Routines

41:02 Community, Camaraderie & Training with Others

41:10 Random Drug Testing & Outlier Stories

44:00 Mindset, Aging & Staying Inspired

46:00 Keira's Book, Upcoming Races & Where to Find Her

48:20 Sponsor Products Explained & Outro

Episode Transcript:

Well, Keira, we are both really excited to have you on the podcast. We were chatting a little bit before, but I think this will be like an episode like 450 something. And Nicole rarely comes on as a guest host with me, but we'll be chatting about just like what we're up to in the next few days, and I'll let her know what guess I'm having on. I mentioned that you're going to come on and she's like, oh, I'm coming on that one. I want to help. So I'm pumped that you're here too. So yeah. And I loved your book. So I was such a fan girl, so. Well, thanks for reading that. Really, it means the world to me that just for you to come on this journey with me. So thank you for reading. Absolutely. Yeah, it was fun. I know for me personally, I love stories. When people accomplish things in a non-traditional way, like hence the name Human performance outliers. It's like doing something really impressive or something exciting or something new. with a in a, in a path forward. That was maybe not the way that you would imagine it to be, or where many of the peers are doing it that way. So I think your story kind of fits perfectly for that given just. Kind of your background, kind of your relationship with running, your career, your family and everything that kind of goes into making who you are. So I don't know, maybe if you don't mind, if you want to just share a little bit of background about kind of what got you into running originally and then, you know, stepping away from it for a bit and then what got you back into it? Yeah, absolutely. I joined the cross country team my freshman year in high school simply to impress the soccer coach. I was so convinced he'd see me out there running and he'd be like, this girl's got endurance. She needs to be on the varsity team. And I joined cross country and the first race I remember so vividly around Berkeley, a course called Burke Lake and Burke, Virginia. I got halfway into it and I'm like, this is the worst. Like, why did I sign up for this? This hurt so much. And then I started thinking, well, I'm not a quitter, so I'm not going to walk off the course. But I was like, in my head, I don't know if praying is the right word or just hoping, wishing that like a deer would come and take me out because I was thinking I'd been run over by a deer would be less painful than continuing running. And then you go by this like driving range and I'm like, well, what if one of these, like, strong men or women hit a really long ball? It could hit me. So I was kind of looking out for that, thinking that that would probably be less painful than continuing on, but I made it the whole race and I finished and it's like that's when it clicked that I was like, this is what it's all about. Doing something that's hard that you don't think you can do and you almost don't want to continue doing. But finding a way to work through and being so proud that you found the courage and the strength and just the fortitude to keep going. So it turned into so it wasn't, I guess, love at first sight. But like every race that season, it felt very similar. And then I started putting the pattern together that I really liked. I really liked chasing my limits. I really like seeing what's in the tank. And yeah, so from then on I quit soccer and just went all in and running and went to American University and was a four time All American and then tried to pursue it after college. And I had this perpetual injury that needed surgery that wasn't covered by insurance. So then I quit, and took like eight plus years off thinking that I would never run again, that my like, elite running days were behind me, and I accepted the fact that I would never reach a lot of the goals that I believed in and just, yeah. And then came back around and just started. Yeah. For all the different reasons why someone would run. And I think for those different reasons why I was able to climb to greater heights. Yeah, it's so impressive. And I'm curious because like when you look at like that trajectory or that timeline, was there like a, a spot during that when you were returning to running where you were like it clicked and you're like, okay, I need to I'm going to attempt to race some of the best in the world now versus just making this kind of part of who I am again. Or was that something that kind of gradually crept up on you after a few results or a few training cycles or something like that? Yeah, it definitely, I feel like it took years to get to a mentality like that one. Like I wasn't afraid to fully go for it. Like I feel like I put running back into my life for mental and physical wellness. And I was so afraid that if I went after big goals and really put everything into it, I would lose what I so desperately needed out of running. So it took me a while to get to a point where I was ready to risk it being like my fun thing, and that's when it kind of clicked that I was like, it can still be my fun thing, and I can try to like, kick as much as possible. So there definitely was like a six month period where I really debated, do I go all in? Do I really go for it? Do I see where I can? You know where my ceiling is, can I? You know, go for it. But that. That took a while. And I think it takes racing and kind of getting a little bit more confident to kind of show yourself, I don't know, to kind of support that dream. But I do remember really vividly, there was one workout that I was doing as mom Kira, and I was doing three by three miles, like tempo. And my last one, I was like, well, why don't I just run the extra point one and see what my five k time would be? And I ran through like the 3.1 and it was like seconds off my PR time for college. And that's when everything like, like kind of clicked and it was like really like a time warp because I was like, running isn't everything. Like running is just like maybe five on my priority list in my life right now. And somehow I'm kicking Kira's. But right now, how is it possible that it almost ran the time that I ran at nationals in college when running was everything. So I think that workout really changed my perspective too. That running doesn't need to be my number one in my life to be able to do really well also. I think what's so impressive is just how you have infused humor and just enthusiasm into your running, and just the way you have reframed it. But do you think it took that break for you to get to that point where you just needed to realize that it's not going to be my everything, it's just a part holistically of my life? Yeah. In round one, I didn't have that. I mean, I was like, I would show to practice telling jokes, that I'd be laughing. But like everyone that I saw around me was very, like, single minded, very serious, very like, detail oriented and not telling jokes. You know, they weren't laughing on the starting line of their races. So I kind of felt like if I wanted to succeed, I had to be like that. And so it was really beautiful to come back in round two and be totally Kira and show Kira to the world that I am the person telling jokes. I am laughing on the starting line. I am trying to like, you know, tease or kind of like, playfully, trash talk to some of my competitors. Like that to me is really funny and I've been able to have success also. So that was really cool to prove that, you know, the series single minded works really well for some people. It didn't work for me. So it's nice to show that, yeah, you can have fun, you can make jokes, you can laugh in the middle of the race and still do well. Yeah, I find it interesting too, because when you look at just the traditional path of, like probably most people who find themselves with an Olympic distance American record at some point in their career, and in your case, a couple of them, there it is probably more likely to be that I was really good in high school. I went through the collegiate system, then I went pro and their identity became their identity, and their career became this athlete. And maybe everything comes secondary. Maybe they don't even, like start a family because of this. So you have any sort of trouble along the way or negative results or things like that? There's just not a lot to turn to. It seems in that scenario versus you had to kind of almost probably rediscover your identity in those eight years and kind of figure out like, well, who am I when I'm not running? And I would imagine when things get challenging or hurdles, you didn't expect to get placed in the way before a race or something like that, you're just able to kind of pull from that to some degree. You, Zach, you nailed it like 100%. I agree with everything you just said. Like in round one, a bad race because running was my full identity. A bad race turned into a bad day, or a bad week, or a bad couple weeks until I could race again and prove my worth. And then I felt like my happiness was dependent on my performance. So if I ran well, then I could be happy. And that's a really precarious place to be. And now in round two. Round two, I have a race. And even if it's a bad race, I come home and my kids are like, what's for dinner? Like the bad race ends at the bad race. It doesn't even turn into a bad day or a bad week. And it doesn't mess with my identity because now, like, my identity is a mother and there's so many other parts of Kyra that's a really full version that even just a bad race, I can keep it. I don't know that. I don't know, I can brush that off a little easier. But yeah, even when I didn't run, I was Kira, the runner who didn't run for a really long time. But I think that, like learning how full of a person I was during those eight, nine years, I think it really set me up for just a really healthy mindset to be able to go after some of these goals. Yeah, I think that's so interesting. It's kind of like you give yourself the permission to fail at times, right? And just rebound and just realize it's just part of the whole experience, I think. Again, so many young runners have that relationship with running where it just encompasses everything about their just their daily being. So I'm curious if you had to kind of look back and you gave advice to younger runners, what would you tell them? Like how would you ask them to refrain from it? Because I just think it's so common. Yeah. I think like my superhero power around too, I'm not afraid to fail. And it took me a while to get there, but I reframed instead of win or lose, it's winner learn. And the races that I fall short are usually the races where Kira learns something new and levels up and becomes better for it. So every time I fall short, I get a new tool for my toolbox and I have a robust toolbox right now. And I think that's why sometimes, like when I broke the American record or the marathon, I used probably like half the tools in there from Lessons Learned to be able to succeed on that day. But I also think I learned that falling short of a goal isn't failure. But sitting on the sidelines and not giving yourself, like the permission or just like just sitting there wondering what could be. I think almost like when I sat there in my halftime show from running and just thought of all the would of kudos and all the regrets and like, oh, I should have done this, I should have done this, or I wish I could do this, or I didn't even have the courage to try. To me, that's failure. So now coming back and even just making it to the start line, I'm looking around like, look at me go like I'm winning. Like I picked a goal, I trained for it. And I'm on the start line right now. This is a win. So even regardless of how the outcome goes. And so I think just reframing that. But I also think if you're too afraid to fail, you can't really go for it. You're playing it safe and you can't really find your true potential. But I think if you just realize that more than, I mean, I'd say 90% of the the races I've done, I haven't won. Like, it is rare to win. And so I think when you kind of normalize it, this is part of the process. This is how we learn, this is how we grow. And just accept that. I think that that helps. I mean, it still stings, but yeah, so but it's hard, you know, when you're coming into the sport and you're coming into running, like, how do you learn that other than doing, which is. Yeah. One thing I heard you mentioned. I think I was on another podcast where you're talking about one of your children who was just kind of doing what kids do to explore, like, what do I want to be when I grow up? And they had like a few ideas and each time they would bring one up, they're like, well, yeah, you can do that. You can be what you want to be. The beauty of things is if you decide that's what you want, if you put in a ton of work towards it, that's something you can accomplish. And I find that sort of messaging for younger runners to be so powerful versus just catching like a really talented runner early and sort of funneling them into that as that's where your identity is. You don't have any other options. This is what you have to focus on. They go around thinking, cool, I'm great at running, but I could also be a doctor, or I could also be a teacher or whatever else interests them. I think it probably sets them up to have some of those tools that you've acquired through just kind of navigating life the way you have. Absolutely. Yeah. You could be a runner and something. Yeah. And that conversation was with my daughter and she was like, I could be a doctor or dentist or a mother. And I was like, and a mother, you know, like, you can be a mother and a teacher. You can be a mother and a computer scientist, like there's an an there. And the same thing with runners. And I think that, yeah, that's cool to see. And I think now that there are people like MEB Kozlowski who are a really big inspiration of mine. And he was pushing the limits age wise before I was. And there's a lot of women Allyson Felix, Edna Kiplagat, Sarah Hall that have all kind of shown us all what we're capable of as we age. And so I think for younger runners, seeing that and just seeing this long runway ahead of them is really powerful that they can be patient, they can take time off if they want to be a runner that doesn't run for a while, that's okay too. And then when they want to run again, it will still be there. And yeah, they're going to have to do, you know, a little extra work to catch back up, but that's fine. but yeah, that's a yeah, that's a powerful thing to learn. Yeah. I would be curious to, like, do you find that, with the fact that you had a lay off that that's been helpful in terms of just staying both mentally excited about training and racing as you get a little bit older, as well as maybe just not having as much wear and tear on your body as you would if you maybe had ran hard during those eight years. Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's some pros and cons of my way of doing things, and I definitely think one of the pros is what you just said is I didn't have ten years of abusing my body. You know, I've used it in other ways of eating, like, too much, like fast food and Dunkin Donuts and like, not doing enough exercise. But my legs, yeah, were fresh. And then also like, I went through a stint for a couple years where I got super into CrossFit and I was jacked like my body looked like a cross fitter. It was so cool and powerful to see. Like when I dedicated time towards another thing my body could transform into, like supporting that activity. But I think I got an insane amount of squatting. And I think that that made me really strong. And maybe part of that I learned how to strengthen my muscles, which really helped. And then I went into a cycling phase where I was doing sensory bike rides, and that gave me crazy endurance and patience, because that takes a long time. But yeah, but also like my body was really well rested. I did like a ten year taper, which I think. Yeah, it definitely helped. But then also stepping away and seeing like I started working for a while with the running company and seeing why other people run, and I was so singular minded in college that it was all about how fast and all of a sudden my world opened up, that's not the only reason people run. You can run for community. You can run for a little bit, you know, control or space in your day along the chaos, you can run because your doctor told you you need to lower your cholesterol. So do some activity you can run for, like, yeah, mental wellness. You can run just because you want a cute shot for Instagram or to, you know, meet a new group of friends. Like there's so many different reasons why and they're all great reasons to run. So I started realizing how much more running was, and I think that really helped coming back. What do you think? Mentally, it was just nice to have that long break and just like reframing everything again. It sounds like maybe that was part of where you felt like it was advantageous, but just curious on your thoughts with that. Yeah, 100%. I don't think I could have climbed these heights without what I learned when I wasn't running. And I think, like the biggest thing that changed for me is just my perspective shift, which is like essentially what the book is about is how I changed thinking about running and the pressure behind running my why from running like that all completely switched into a much healthier, sustainable, more fun thing. I think a lot of people can learn that while running, but I'm like, yeah, I'm a person that needs to fail a lot and learn my lessons, I guess. So, yeah, I think it is healthy. And then when you come back, it does feel like a gift. And I feel so lucky to have this in my life to be able to, like I started realizing that like, the joy of running comes in the grind, not like the highs and lows. So I started appreciating running every day for how it was in my day. And just so yeah, that whole perspective shift I think really helped. Yeah, I think it's really interesting when I think of like the pro marathoning careers, it's like for someone who for me anyway, like running ultramarathons, if I get a little fatigued mentally from like a specific goal or specific type of race, it's like, oh, well, I'll just entirely change the environment and do a trail or mountain race or something like that, and they could kind of reset it. But to some degree with the marathon, it's like there's not that much variance from one course to the next. So being able to maintain that mentality has to be something where you're continually working on finding like, where's that? Where is that? Why is that? That keeps me excited to do the hard stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that, yeah, that's another secret, is just finding a Y that you feel really passionate about. But for me, in between marathon blocks, I like to insert a speed block. Which one? Like me, it helps with marathoning because I think when my top end speed and my five K and like ten km speed come down, that marathon pace feels easier. It's a different scenery, it's a different people, it's different races. but then I also find myself missing so much like the grind of marathon training. Like I think that speaks to me more, but is really hard to do so often. So I think just stepping away a little bit and alternating has really helped me just keep the marathon feel fresh. Yeah, I was curious about that because with, US Championships, I noticed that, like you and Conor Mance both did the 10-K, which I thought was really cool because, you know, as fans of the sport, I see Cara and Connor as marathoners and you think like, okay, they've got to be training for some of the the big majors or championships, Olympics and that sort of thing. Is that something that you were really interested in yourself, or is that like an Eddie Stone type of technique that he likes to do with his athletes? To kind of, like you said, keep that speed in your legs and interest, I guess, too. I think Eddie's figured out we're all very different athletes and we need different things. So like, a Clayton Young doesn't need a 10-K on the track to, like, excite him, like he likes being in the grind. He finds a lot of joy in between. He does like a lot of the road races, but that doesn't excite him at all. But someone like Connor and me, like, we love to race. Like no matter the distance, we like to throw it in there even when we know we're going to get our butts kicked sometimes, maybe more so for me than Connor. He does more of the more, more the butt kicking. But it's exciting to like, you know, change it up. And that was one thing. I was drawn to the Eddie Jones group because I saw Connor Mance at all of the same races I was doing, so I was like this coach. But then also I didn't see Clayton at all the races. So I'm like, this coach can really get behind each individual athlete and what excites them. And racing excites me. And even for like, yeah, the US track championships, it wasn't until about two weeks before and I crushed like a mile repeat workout and Connor Mantz came up to me and he's like. I mean, you're in good shape, right? I was like, yeah, I am. He's like, well, you know, where do you want to test that out? And I'm like, yeah, I'm not sure. And he's like, I mean, have you thought about the track trials? And I'm like, Connor, I love the way you think. And then we went down this rabbit hole of figuring out, like, if I were top three, could I get a world qualifying? Did I have a standard? So he really, like, walked me through all that. And he understands world athletic math I do not. So he walked me through and was that little seed that just planted it. And then when I called the coach at Ice Stone, I was like, hey, so I'm thinking about the 10-K track championships. He's like, I was waiting for you to catch up on that gear. He's like, let's do it. So, that was fun. And like, I mean, we were definitely in like road race marathon mode right now. But it's really fun. Like when you see a little bit of that strength and that fitness come through, it's fun to kind of test it and just see, see what happens. So yeah, I'm proud that I threw myself in there and like you here in the book, every time I do a 10-K on the track, I'm like, I'm never doing that again. Like Pinky Promise. And then I keep coming back because it excites me for some reason, because there maybe is a chance that I can make a team one time. But we'll see. It's funny. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to ask you about to was, and this kind of relates a little bit to just maybe your mindset or what you've learned with your path forward was you're describing the race that you did in Australia when you broke the American record for the half marathon, and how there was just all these different things that went wrong, leading into it from the travel perspective and just, you know, getting to the start line, essentially. And I remember thinking about that, I was just like, you know, we watch these athletes race all over the world and we just assume it's going to be like real life, like they're just transported over there or something like that. And it's not an inconvenience to their schedule. And I remember thinking about that. It's like if you're running like on the Diamond League circuit or something like that, that's got to be really challenging to create a routine that I think a lot of runners probably crave the consistency and the training and then also perform in a totally different area. So like going into that race, did you find that just your life experience with kind of the in and out of running the variance and everything like that maybe better prepares you for a situation like that where you have to perform in a different area with unpredictable things that may happen in the days leading up. Probably like I think I was really or am a pretty low maintenance runner because for a while I was sneaking in workouts like in between a home inspection and showing houses or in between like what I can line up like and have this magical moment where both kids were napping. I would hop on the treadmill or something. So like, I've been really flexible and I've learned and I think with that it helps me not stress out about some things. And so yeah, I left on a Sunday. I arrived with all the cancellations and delays. I landed in Australia Thursday late afternoon for a Saturday morning race, so my body had no idea what time it was. But I remember vividly on the starting line thinking, okay, so not ideal. I've been traveling for almost five days. It feels like I showed up so much later. Like I got a shakeout run and like my legs feel okay, but probably not ideal for breaking an American record. And I answered back like, well, if I don't go for it, I definitely won't get the record. But if I go for it, I'll either not get the record or I'll get the record. So just logically, if I want any chance of getting the record, I need to go for it. So why not? Right. Why not go for it and see? But I do think, and just like a mom in general, like we're throwing the weirdest stuff, like every day and there's things that pop up that you're like. I was not expecting to have to handle this today. I'm not equipped to handle this, but we can work through this and get it. So I think that that has just really helped with running too. And then also it just helps separate what's a big deal and what's a small deal. You know, like having a flight delayed and rescheduled and being stuck in LA and the mean stuck in Sydney, like those are small deals. Like no one's getting hurt. My kids are healthy, everyone's fine. You know? No. Like. So I think that that also has helped too. Yeah, that's really interesting. I, I love to hear that kind of like those stories of just like, all right. It's not ideal. And performance was still high because it just kind of goes to that. Like we love perfection and strive for perfection, but it's never really perfect, right? Like there's always going to be something that could have been different. But ultimately you've got to be comfortable with just what you have in front of you and then put your best foot forward and hopefully break the American record, I guess. Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. Like, yeah. It's nice when it happens. Yeah, it is nice. I was curious too. Are you still doing real estate now that you've been kind of on the pro running circuit, or are you still managing two careers? I guess, at this point. So I'm still licensed. I've sold two houses this year, but I didn't transfer. I live out in Utah now, so I trained with the BYU protein. So I didn't transfer my license from Virginia to Utah purposely because I have a really hard time saying no. So I'm like, this would be a really, like, steadfast way just to say I'm not licensed in Utah. I'm sorry, I can help you or I'm not physically in Virginia, so I can't help you. So that's become like a very small piece of my pie now. And my license is up for renewal at the end of this year. And I'm even thinking, like, do I just let it? Like, do I need to renew it? You know, or, you know, just what if I just go all in and just focus 100% on all of this, and then I know how to get my license and build a business and grow, you know, clients and everything. And so, so we'll see. So yes, I'm still a realtor. I'm a licensed broker. But no, I'm not like actively practicing. Yeah. And it's interesting too because I think like you may be at a point in your life now to where like removing that isn't, doesn't maybe feel as much of a like okay now I'm all in on running again because you've got the tools to find different interests, different passions. And you have a family as well that I'm sure always has some activities and things around it. So I find that as I get older too, I just have more curiosities. So it's like if I'm not running well or if I'm injured or taking an off season or whatever, it's like, oh, well, there's this pile of things I was wanting to do when I was grinding out those, those files before that. I can now dive into it a little bit. Yes, absolutely. I can very much relate to that. one other like, training thing I wanted to ask you about too was, is I think it's really interesting when you look at someone who has moved to the sport, there's there seems to be kind of at least some degree, probably some shifts as you kind of pick new targets, do different changes. And one thing I saw that you mentioned was that when you were earlier on building up, you were doing more of like a high mileage training approach and hitting maybe up to like 130 miles per week training. But more recently, you've decided to kind of go with a little bit more of a lower. I mean, I say lower, it's still a lot of miles, but lower than 130, right. And focused a little more on the speed. So yeah. Is there that just the speed side of things from the lowering of the mileage, or are there other things in there that you've found to be more valuable inputs than maybe those. Those extreme numbers of miles that you maybe would have done in the past. Yeah, in 2012, I got injured and when I was building back up for a marathon, like I credit my coach a lot at the time. Like he was really patient. And he's like, you can't go from 0 to 100 miles. Like, we have to go to 0 to 20 and then 20 to 40 and then 40 to 50. So we really slowly picked it up. And by the time that I was racing again, I was around 65 to 85 miles. And I broke America. That's when I broke the American record in the marathon. So I broke it by running between 65 and 85 miles. So that's when we kind of learned like, and I think that was partly because I had that strong base. But I had also taken like 3 or 4 months totally off and was like swimming and cross training for a while. But so I think we kind of learned from that, that a lot of my confidence comes from the workouts. So if I can be a little bit more intense and go a little bit more fresh and just crush some workouts, I don't need as many recovery miles. So we've kept my mileage a little bit lower and even coming here to BYU, we are now. I run on a six day a week program. We take Sundays off, and so I'm doing more mileage now. I've run between 80 and 100 training for a marathon, but in six days. So my volume every day is a little bit higher. And then I have that day at the end to reset. But as I age, I've realized that. I'm just closer to that red line. The more miles I do so, the higher my mileage is, the more like little tweaks and injuries that maybe when you're in your 20s, you can kind of brush off and run through. Now that I'm 40, it takes a little bit. You know, that's a couple days off when something like that happens. So we found if we can stay below that red line and keep it really like a strong mileage, but something that I can run really healthily through that's kind of been like just a nice number. So I feel like, yeah, the 80 miles a week where I don't have to double, is really like easy mileage for my body to maintain. And really, like, running is all about consistency, right? So it would be better if I could run 80 miles a week for five months rather than 100 miles, and then take some time off 100 miles. So I think just building that strong base and really focusing on the workouts. But I am like a lower mileage person in general for the marathon. But that's okay. Yeah, it was a really interesting topic, I think, around the Olympics last year, some of the athletes started talking a little bit more about the cross trainer they were doing, I think one that probably stood out just due to the way things ended was Cole Hawker was talking about how he was doing a lot more biking and things like that. And I remember after that just looking, looking to see like, who else is out there doing something like that. He can't be the only one. So yeah. And you also wonder too, like, I mean, I'm on Strava and I share all my runs on Strava, but that tells part of the story, right? It doesn't tell about all the strength that I'm doing or the exercises or the sauna or some of the, you know, the biking or whatever too. So, so yeah, it's interesting how it's yeah, it all kind of comes together for people and then. Yeah, for some people, being able to do a little bit more cardio work without the pounding is really helpful. Like in Cole's case. Yeah. Speaking of Strava, we definitely liked the highlights in your book and I know my husband's a big Strava person, I am not. Sometimes he uploads material for runs for me, but I'm super old school. But tell us more about Strava because that was definitely a highlight. I liked how you kept it fun with that. Yeah, I joined Strava when I was in Midlothian, Virginia, and I didn't have any friends. I didn't have the confidence to show up to a running group, but I needed a social aspect to running. So for me, I was like, I was checking off enough boxes for it to be virtually social. And I'd go for a run and I'd get a kudo for my mom and I'd be like, yes, my mom saw me out there like, you know, just kicking butt today. Like it really meant a lot. And then I started connecting with other, like minded women in Richmond, and I started making friends through Strava, and then I started putting up. We did, we get those popsicle sticks with jokes on it, and with two kids and me eating in popsicle every day, we were crushing through some popsicle jokes so I would save them all and just put them up for my run title instead of morning run, afternoon run, night run, or evening run. I thought that that would be more fun. And then I started like some people started following me from that, and I made a little name for myself. And it was cool that, like, I take it as such a huge compliment when someone will comment. Well, one, the comments on my like post are more funny than the joke itself that I label it with, so definitely go down that rabbit hole. There are some really funny people in Strava that like to level up the joke, but yeah, it just kind of, yeah, it broke things up and it just. Yeah, it just made it. yeah. A little more fun. Yeah, it's funny when you can. We can kind of engage with those platforms because, I mean, as a, as a professional athlete, it's probably at least some hesitance to be posting your stuff out there because, you know, people like to dig into things and, and, and, and ask questions that maybe you don't have an answer for or or they don't have a they don't have a reasonable, perspective of what you're trying to do either. So, it's always fun to see the light side of that stuff. And the, the, the joke titles are always fun to see. Yeah. And if anyone can use my page as inspiration or get ideas for workouts or see kind of how I'm structuring the day, that feels like I'm giving back to the running community. And I love it when people come on and they're like, I'm not following you for your times. I'm following you for your jokes. Like, yeah, your time. I'm sure those times were good in your workout. But that joke was like, groan worthy, you know? Whatever. Like, it makes me feel so good that people see me as a whole person, too. Yeah. And so when they say I'm following you for the jokes, not your running, I take that as a huge compliment. Come for the jokes. Stay for the running. Yeah, come for the jokes. Stay for the running. But I tell people, if you don't like lame jokes, you probably should not be following me on Strava because there's a lot of lame jokes coming. Coming your way? Yeah. One other thing you had mentioned before too, is that when you kind of got back into running, you started just kind of exploring and learning why other people were running. Then I learned, I think I can't remember when I learned this, but you actually own a running store. Is that still the case? Yeah. So in Richmond, Virginia, PR run and walk by Kira D'Amato. So since moving to Utah, I've, you know, I'm like, not an active member anymore, but the manager there, Bronson Lee and Annie Lutz, they are incredible. And they are so involved in the community and giving back. And they're like, fulfilling my vision for just creating a space in the community to support, encourage and get people out there and moving. So yeah, it's still going strong and I'm so proud of them for just the work they do. And I think in 2024 I want to say they went, I want to I know 100% over 100 events, but I think they went to close to 200 events during the year in the community, including high schools and track meets and like, different middle schools and cross country meets and road races or packet pickups like they were so awesome with just like supporting and cheering and rooting for the Richmond community. That's really cool. Yeah. One other thing I wanted to ask you about, too, was just you get, like, it just kind of feeds into the community side of it. Where for me, with running, it's like I can go into these modes of just like, oh, I've got this workout or I've got this training program. It's kind of laid out and I just kind of go through it and do it, and then I'll be doing it by myself if it's specific to me. And you start kind of losing a little bit of just that camaraderie of running with other people or even doing a workout with another person. Do you have like a personality within kind of running where you find like a balance, where it's like, hey, these are some workouts that I really would like to be by myself, or ones where you're like, hey, I'm really glad I've got a team here and people that can pace me, or I can paste them and kind of get an additional value outside of just like checking that day's box of workouts. Yeah, I think for like normal recovery runs where you're just running mileage, I can be with a group or it can be by myself and I'm totally fine. And there's some days where you feel just totally overwhelmed by life that you just kind of want to zone out and not have to talk, just put on audiobooks or music. But I think for workouts and long runs, I really simulate that to mirror a race. And there's always people in a race, so I always welcome having people there. And even if the pacing is weird or their surges, like, I really welcome all of that because that's what happens in a race. So I love as much as I can simulate a race simulation. And I found that running with people, especially for workouts, pulls me out into zones that are probably a little sooner or a little faster, and I find out even more what I'm capable of. So I really like them better together. I love training with a group. It's been really cool coming out to Park City, Utah and having all these runners here. Like even this morning I ran with the Puma Elite Group and just running with that whole crew was really fun. And then normally, you know, training with the BYU protein down in Provo has just been incredible. And even when I'm not like that, I can't work out with Connor or Clayton or any of the guys, but seeing them crush their workouts and really go for it is so inspirational. So I really pull a lot from them, even though we only warm up and cool down together. That's nice. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to ask you to do is, like, your general training. What role do you do with strength work? What does that kind of look like within the context of your training plan? Yeah. So when I first got into running, I, like, made it known to everybody who would listen, which was like nobody. But like I, I just want to run. I don't want to do anything else but running. And then after an injury, then I realized, okay, doing these little exercises is far worse than being injured and sitting on the sideline. So I was like, okay, so I'm going to do running and like the hurdle drills just so I don't get injured. And then and then you realize a little bit more that's like, well, okay, if I strengthen this, then my body's more in line and I can be more efficient, I can be stronger. So then it kind of was like, okay, I'm just going to run into the hurdle drills and like, you know, my Pilates and my like weight room stuff. And every time I kind of, I don't know, I get injured. I learned a new weakness about myself. And so then that adds more into things like my PT or whatever. But right now I'm lifting twice a week. We have an awesome strength coach here at BYU. His name is Brayden. I think he's the run strong coach on Instagram. He is one of the most fun followers and it's so informative and so helpful. So I definitely recommend it. And he also likes to offer programs or whatever. But he's been so great because he gives us tailored exercises for us individually and our weaknesses. And it's so nice because it's not like I'm not doing 20 exercises that feel overwhelming and take a while. He gives me like 5 or 6 key exercises, you know, per time. But yeah, I think it's really important, even though I hate to do it. But the only thing I hate more than doing strength is not running. So whatever I need to do to keep running. So yeah. That's very cool. Yeah, that is a great Instagram follow. I definitely follow him on Instagram and learn. Learn something new every time he posts. I'm sure other people do as well. He's awesome. Cool. Nicole, did you have any I didn't want to keep? No. Okay, okay. I have a really quick story. Yeah, yeah, let's hear it. Okay. Because this is human performance. Outliers. I just have kind of a funny story about this, but. And the only reason why I would think I'm an outlier, I guess. But so in 2022 and 2023, I think I was the most tested, drug tested athlete in the US. I was getting random tests all the time, and it was always like, I don't know, just at funny times too. So it was just comical. Like one time I was like giving this huge speech and I made sure for you, Sada, whenever they call to put that like to put it on blast. So I'm in an auditorium at a podium in the middle of the speech and my phone starts ringing and like I knew everything else was on silent but you, Sada. So I was like, hold on. And I'm sure everyone in the audience is like, is this lady for real? She's going to answer a call. So I like to walk off stage real quick, answer it, come back on. And I was like, okay, so this is part of being a pro athlete. I was just randomly selected for drug testing. So, but I have an hour to get home so I can finish the speech and then rush home anyway, so it was comical how much I was getting tested. So I finally asked the USADA person and I was like, I have a question. Like I have been the most tested US athlete for years. And I think I know why. And they're like, okay, let. Let us hear it. And I was like, I think it's because I'm clean and you guys want to boost your numbers. So, you know, you can come knock on my door morning nude night whenever and you're going to get a clean test. You can say you've tested X number of athletes. And, you know, I'm like a solid, clean athlete. And they're like, that's really cute. But no. She's like, it's actually because you're an outlier. Like when you look at your age and your performance, you are in the red zone for what you're accomplishing at your age. And there's not a lot of people your age competing at your level. So you're flagged as a high risk candidate. And that made me laugh a little bit. And that's not at all what I thought she was going to say. But for whatever reason, just being on your podcast made me think of that story. But, yeah, a little weird. That's funny. Yeah. You give me hope, Keira. I still try to compete from an ultra perspective. And I'm 43, and I like that's why I'm so inspired by you just watching your journey. I think, like, trying to be an outlier. And you're successful at beating outliers. So impressive. Well, I think what I want to prove is that I'm not an outlier too. Like, I think I'm just showing all what we are capable of. Like, I've had to lower my volume. I have to get more sleep. I have to do more PT. I've had to be smart about not racing as much, but I don't think I'm anything special. But I do think like my mentality, it might be resiliency and the fact that now I'm 40 still trying to crush it. That is a little unique. But I'm hoping by doing it, it shows everyone what we're all capable of. And after, some of I said this already, but after the 10-K track championships, I was cooling down with a woman that I think is in her early 20s, and she's like, Kira, I love when you crush a race. And I was like, that's so sweet. Yeah, thanks for saying that. She's like, no, because every time you crush a race, it adds years onto my timeline. You're making my running longevity longer because you're showing me what I can do for years to come. So I feel like she was like, I can be a little more patient now because I know how much longer I have in this sport. And I think that's a really cool thing. But just your spin on that and your optimism and the way you can refrain, reframe all of that is so inspiring for everyone because it's so easy to say, oh, I'm getting old. It's, you know, I'm going to get slower. You don't do that, right. You say, I'm not an outlier, I can do this. I think that is so inspiring and just such a good reminder. Whether you are a runner or showing up in your day to day life. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I get emails at work where it's like the spin on, oh, like, I don't think we can do this. It's like, no, put it in the other way. Like, what are we going to do to make it happen? Right. I think that the fact that you've used that to your superpower is so incredible. So that's really inspiring. Oh, thanks for saying that, Nicole. That was really sweet. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. Awesome. Well, Keira, we don't want to take up too much of your time. And we do appreciate you sharing some of your message and your story and things like that. But, before we let you go, if you don't mind sharing the book where they can find it anywhere you are online that you'd like people to know about, whether it be social media or a website or anything like that. Yeah, I have a book coming out on 99, which I like because it's three squares twice. The math in me is like really excited that that's like the day that they picked, but it's called Don't Call It a Comeback. And that's funny to me because I've literally never once called it a comeback. And I feel like that's not it. The whole thing hasn't been a comeback. So that's implying that I came back to someone I used to be, and instead I grew and learned and evolved and found this new version of me. But yeah. So don't call to come back nine, nine. It's sold. Yeah. Wherever books are sold, I think shopping locally is really awesome. So if you can shop locally, that would be cool. But then also they asked me to record the audiobook. So if you listen, if you're into audiobooks, it's going to be my voice. If you don't like listening to me on this podcast, you're not really going to like it. If you don't like the tone from what you've heard today, you're not going to like it. But it's really cool that it's like my story, my words and my voice. And that was really a fun process and I'm sorry I pronounced some things wrong. Like there's some things I just get wrong. I'm not a human element. Like audio, like, Yeah. Voice actor. But. Yeah. And then I'm on Instagram at Kira D'Amato and then Strava. Kira D'Amato I post, yeah, the jokes every day on Strava. So if you want a little, little reason to groan or to laugh, depending on the day. Yeah, follow me on Strava. Very cool. Well, I probably should have asked this at a certain point, but if you can, is there a race that you're preparing for right now? Yeah, I'm actually headed out in a couple weeks to Copenhagen to do the Copenhagen half in September, and then I have a fall marathon coming up, and they've announced the US fall marathons, and I was not on either of that list. So I think we can assume it's not a US fall marathon, but I don't know when they're going to announce that. But yeah. So I'm excited. It's a later fall, one in another country that's really fast. And I'm really excited and yeah. So let's see. We'll see what happens. That's awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time. It's been a blast to chat with you. Yeah. Thanks, Zach and Nicole. This is really fun. Yeah I appreciate you guys having me on and spending your time. Yeah. Friday with me.