Episode 373: Javelina 100 Recap
Nicole joined for this episode as we recap my race at this year's Javlina 100 Mile where I completed the five loop course in 13 hours 34 minutes 08 seconds for fifth overall.
Articles mentioned in this episode: The Javelina 100 Mile & Fueling Javelina 100 Mile
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Episode Transcript
Nicole. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. So I needed to record a post Halloween 100 episode. And historically, I've done these just by myself with solo episodes, but it's lonely in this studio by myself. So I thought, I'll bring you up here. I can imagine one's a lonely number. So yeah. No. In reality, the reason I want to have you on for this episode is because not only are you very experienced with the javelin 100 from a runner standpoint, but you screwed me this year too, so you were very much kind of in the front seat to watch everything play out. Actually. You didn't just screw me. You paced me for a loop as well, so you saw quite a bit of it. Yes, I definitely had the full experience this year and it was fun. It's fun day. Yeah. What was it like crewing and pacing after two years racing it in? What was it in 2020 and 2022 I suppose? Right. Yeah. You know, I've never figured out if I find it more stressful to be racing or to be carrying and pacing. There's an element of once you get started racing that certainly you know that you have to, you know, go the distance. And 100 miles is certainly challenging to wrap your head around, but there's something about pacing and crewing you that gives me a lot of anxiety as well. So I just really haven't decided which is tougher. But, you know, all in all, yeah, it was a fun day to be out there. Yeah, it's an interesting point though, because I guess I probably have a better perspective right now. And or maybe not just reverse perspective. Because I screwed you last year and now I ran it this year. I think it's more stressful crewing, to be honest with you. At least it was this time for me. I would say there's probably been races that I wouldn't feel that way where I'd be like, man, I'm glad that I wasn't the one out there running it. But for whatever reason, for hobbling this year, I felt like it was pretty kind of even keel. Like I didn't feel like the emotions of it made it stressful the way it maybe can at times with these types of events. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the challenge of pacing and crewing. You, you. The day almost feels astronomically long because you're just out there waiting for your runner and you're somewhat helpless, right? You almost have less control. So you're kind of a bystander. So you know that once your runner comes around every loop, you're on point. So it's like you've got to get ready. And then when the runner leaves and you did something wrong, you like to think about it for a long period of time, whereas the runner probably just adapts. So there's an element where I think just having the control of being the racer makes it, I think, a bit easier than the crew and pacer. But I think also you've probably again, you've crewed and paced me in more of these trail races than I probably have crewed and paced you. So it's a little. Yeah, it's different on a 400 meter loop for sure, because right, there are really consequences because a little bit of downtime at the thing. I think that was interesting to me because I've done hobbling for three times now and I've had different experiences there. In 2016, I won it and set what was the course record at the time. And I thought in hindsight naively, that it was like a well executed race because it's like, hey, you win and set the course record. Like what other like what other conclusion are you going to draw? But, you know, looking back at it now, where I am in the sport and just with hindsight and with better knowledge of what I think is kind of racing strategy or optimal racing strategy, I should say, like my race in 2016, I went away too fast. I did it again in 2017. Had a pretty good result that year that I would say 2017 was a very competitive year for having or relative to the old javelina. Javelina now is on a whole nother level than what it's ever been as you experienced. I think last year to a large degree, which is cool to see. But in 2017 I went out like, wait. I doubled down on my mistakes from 2016 and found out that when you double down on your mistakes versus correct them, you pay for those mistakes exponentially worse. So I, I still got second place behind what was, you know, a course record year again with Pat Ragan, who ran a phenomenal time 13 flat at Javelina back then was like, no one was looking for that sort of a result. Uh, but I got second place, and I ran slower than I had the year prior, so it was kind of clear in my mind. All right, that didn't work the way I thought it would. And really, the reality is, when you analyze both those splits from 2016 to 2017, the thing that stands out was just kind of my regression over the course of the five laps versus any sort of maintenance or even negative splitting. And I think what's changed my mind between now and then is that I think the optimal race is going to be done at a very small margin to either side or even split. And I think it's just like an interesting thought process and something that maybe the ultrarunning world hasn't bought into in any meaningful way yet, because you just don't see it. Like even a lot of the course records and some of the fastest times in world records, for that matter, are done with positive splits. And oftentimes, like what I would consider like big positive splits relative to what we would see in other endurance sports that are a little more professional, I think, for a longer period of time. Why do you think that we have big positive splits on even some of the big performances? I mean, I think it's twofold. I think one hundred mile distance is really long. So the intensity is going to be averaged. So if you took someone's pure potential and said like this is the number you can run if everything goes right. It's going to feel so slow at the beginning. It's almost going to be to a degree where whatever feels easy should probably be brought back another small degree to make that actually doable. And that's such a hard thing to do when you're in the heat of competition, when you're tapered, when you have anxiety and the stress of race day and things like that. And then there's also this thing where I think once people get experience as to what the end of an ultra feels like. You know how bad it can feel or how hard it can get. So the idea of going slower kind of has this, like weird thing in the back of your mind where you feel like, if I don't bank time now, I'm going to arrive in that same really discomfort or uncomfortable problematic spot that I have to try to like, get through, but I'm going to arrive at it in a later time than I would before, so I'm going to have to work even harder in what was in an environment that they've perceived as being incapable of working any harder than they already are. What do you think, though, about just putting yourself out in the competition? Because if everyone else is going out, you know, relatively quicker, I think there's that aspect that I just wonder how that factors in. Yeah, there's the psychology of it. So I would say this, I would say there are going to be runners who, if they're not in the thick of it, they will stress themselves out. And an even split or a negative split won't be an option for them in that scenario, because they're going to be running themselves crazy in their mind, not being in the mix of it, and that mental stress will likely put them in a position where they may still not even split or negative split, even if they get out conservatively. But I would consider that a sports psychology issue, not a reality issue. I think that's a problem that you can solve. And if you solve that problem, you're going to level up versus being, oh, this is my reality. I have to make the best of it. Taking a step back, just kind of setting the stage to just curious, because I know you were coming off of an injury earlier in the summer, and I just want to hear about your buildup to Javelina, because I thought that was interesting, because I know in living with you, you have had a couple of tough years. And so just want your perspective of, you know, how your buildup was. Yeah. You know, the interesting thing for me about it was one, I had a great buildup. I had a 20 week buildup that went basically as flawless as I could have expected it to go. 1s The only problem, like when I was looking at just like, what should I do? Because you eventually have to get it when I talk about even a negative splitting. And it's one of those things where not only have I screwed it up more often than not, you know? So it's tough because at the end of the day, you have to end up picking a number that's accurate enough to put that plan into place because it's inaccurate. Then it's like you're going to end up not actually executing, which is always which has been my biggest hurdle with that is I think I've had a scenario where when I've had my best rep, I had my best races in my career in 2019, and that also happened to be the year where I really learned how to even a negative split. So my perspective with it has been my historical best performances. And then you get injured and you lose a lot of that fitness and a lot of that momentum. Well, what was the target in 2019 was not a good target for me when I'm not in that condition where I've stacked running cycle after running cycle after running cycle on top of each other. So to some degree, it's like you have to be honest with yourself about where your fitness is at. So I sort of had a I had a tough decision to make in my mind, which was I had this great buildup that matched some of the build ups that I've had historically where I've produced some of my better races, but I didn't have training cycles compounded on one another because, like you said, the last two years I've had so many interruptions. Not enough to really take me out for like an entire year or even from races, but to the point where I wasn't racing at a high level compared to where I would before. So curious. Taking a step back. So what do you mean that your current training matches some of your previous. I just want to get a sense of. Yeah. What? Yeah. So I mean, I mean, I collect a ton of data. I mean, you know, how I go about things with this is I collect a lot of data. So I know, like kind of I have certain benchmarks that I try to hit. And if I can hit those benchmarks, then I'm confident in my body's physical capabilities of being able within reason. I mean, it's not precise. I mean, it's 100 mile racing. We just don't have the accurate data to be, like as precise as we could and say like the five K, ten K, or even any Olympic distance sport will say so, like, but I have a reasonable amount of data where like when I can hit certain benchmarks, my confidence goes way up in terms of like where I can kind of target or what I can target. So it goes from like this could be a range of like an hour or two, like it's a range of like ten minutes of what I could probably do today. So when I have a good build up like I had this time, I feel like I can narrow that range down a lot more. And some of that's probably just the confidence of it all to where it's like, if you doubt it, that's what I wonder. How much does confidence play in? Do you think there's this? Of almost like the placebo. That's so important because from my perspective, I think that's a major part of it. But maybe it's just me. Yeah, I mean, I think it plays a part, but there's also I mean, there's there is a physical or there's a, there's a mental piece to this, but there's also the physical piece where like, I mean, at a certain point, like let's say I have a certain amount of mental fortitude available to me. And when I'm really confident I have that full mental fortitude capacity to work with. If I go out and I run a race, if I run silly for the first two laps of having a five loop course, the amount of mental fortitude I'm going to have to expend in order to keep things moving is going to be way higher than it would be if I'm more in control and running sustainably. So at the end of the day, I like to look at it as I'm working with a certain amount of mental currency, and if I overspend early on, it doesn't matter how confident I was going in, because there's still a threshold as to where I where I'm not going to exceed with that, or a limit to how much of that I'm going to have available to me, even on my best days. So I do think that's and there's a balance there too. I mean, I don't think this is like a very exact thing where it's like, oh, that one second per mile throws you off. I think it's a range. And the idea is to get in that range and not deviate from that, what we'll call maybe a loading zone in order to kind of keep that in a sustainable manner. So going back to your strategy at Javelina, really, what were you going in with your mindset? What was the strategy? Yeah, that's I'll just I'll just finish answering your first question though, because I, I would say one of my, one of my little pieces of doubt I had that I was trying to get over or consider, I should say, when I was picking a race, school was historically I've done really well with compounding training cycles, so I did go in knowing I had one really good build up, but I didn't have any before that. So it was like, what does that mean? Does that mean like I don't have the relative strength that I maybe would have had when I could compound a couple or 2 or 3 on top of one another? So that was the uncertainty, I would say, even though the training data suggested that, I thought I was in a really good spot. But to answer your next question, what? I thought about this in two ways. My goal with Javelina was to try to get a golden ticket, because it was going to be to try to race into Western states for next year's racing plans. And when I looked at the field and the forecast in the kind of the week to two weeks leading into it, because both of those things kind of continue to evolve, right? Like you never know the forecast to get right up to it. The reality is with golden ticket races now people are going to jump into them at the last minute, especially if they perceive that they have a chance to get a spot at Western states. So, you know, it got to a point where, like I had to sort of wait to have a firm target until like the week of the race. So I had all that data available to me in terms of what it would mean to actually run a golden ticket race. When it got down to it, I assumed going in it was going to require something like a sub 13 hour race in order to get a golden ticket. And my thought with that was, you know, if we just look at last year, Dakota Jones breaks the course record by breaking 13 hours. John Ray was second place with a 13 zero. Was like an oh six or something like that. So it's like last year, it was almost to the point where you needed to go under 13 hours. I assume progression at this point with events like Javelina that just have grown year after year after year, and now the field is going, the depth is growing. The weather was looking great relative to what you're going to get at Javelina. So all signs to me pointed to sub 13 hours being necessary for a golden ticket. So then I had to ask myself, is that a reasonable goal? Is that something I can assume or I can, I can reasonably assume is possible? And I thought it was. I thought going in 1255 to 13 would probably be like my top end. Absolute best. Shot like I thought that was on the table. I knew it was going to have to be as perfect as one can get with 100 mile running, but I thought it wasn't something that was too risky to go for. And since my goal, my primary goal, was to give myself a shot at Javelina, I kind of thought I had to pace myself accordingly for 1255 to 13 hours. So that's kind of how I came with my pacing strategy and how I went about those first two laps. So take us to the end of lap two. Yeah. What were you thinking at that point? Were you feeling strong? I know I look at you and you seem pretty confident and happy, which is always a good sign for your runner, right? When you almost have mental fatigue on your face, that's a sign. That's not a good thing. There's a lot of time left at that point. Yeah. So I think coming around in after the second lap and skipping to lap two, because lap one is almost so irrelevant because it's so early, you looked confident and happy. So take us back to that point. Yeah. So since I had data available to me, I was definitely thinking about these things as they played out. So for some perspective, in 2016, I completed the first lap and I should probably back up and describe the loop at Javelina. So it's a five loop Hunter mile course, but the first loop is longer because the actual loop is like 19 points. So they have to add this little extension on loop one to get it to 100 miles. So the first loop is like 22.5 miles, and then the rest are like 19.2 or something like that afterwards. So the first loop isn't necessarily a similar reflection from a pacing standpoint as loops two through five, because I'm going to start sharing numbers as we go through this. And I want to make sure people can kind of compare those. So the first loop in 2016, I did 236 two hours, 36 minutes way too fast. 17 I think I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure this is the fastest first loop done in Javelina, which isn't a record you want unless that comes with a course record. It was 233, so that's what I mean when I said before, I doubled down on my mistakes from the year prior. I went out way too fast. I ran a 233. So my goal this year was like. Back that starting pace up to be a pace that's sustainable for the full 100 miles, and to run a 1255 to 13, I knew that was going to be closer to like a two hour and 50 minute or so first lap. So I came through lap one and it gets a little fuzzy because what is lap one? You do that little kind of quarter mile out or like a horseshoe thing from start to finish. So it's like it's always kind of unclear to me, like where are we actually monitoring this? The start and the finish of each one of these laps. But roughly speaking, I think I was like 248 for that first lap. I was in like a 20 something place. So I was on my way back, which is perfect. That's where I assumed that was going to happen. And I was actually excited about that because in my mind, I was actually ahead, of course, record pace at that point. I was closer to 1255 than I was 13 at that point. So I was like, this is great because there's no way there's 20 some guys that are running under Dakota's course record last year. I mean, it's going to be a ton of carnage. So I was just really excited to know that I'm going to be passing people versus getting passed. So lap two, 1s basically the same as lap one from an intensity standpoint, I ran almost split for split the same through that, maybe a pinch slower, just a pinch, but I passed. I think I counted 14 people in the second lap already, so people are already starting to pay for their first lap pace and coming through lap two. I was really excited about that aspect because it's like, okay, I moved from like 20 something to I was somewhere between sixth or eighth place at that point. I'm not clear exactly where it was, but it was somewhere around there. And I was thinking to myself, well, if I passed 14 people on lap two, how am I going to pass on three? How many can I pass on four and five? I knew just based on how much fewer people were in front of me. It would be a much smaller number, but it was exciting. I'll say that. Um. 1s I got to like the first aid station on lap three, though, and that's where I started kind of thinking I might have cooked it a little bit too much based on where my real potential is today. And I think part of that was, I would say, like if I made a mistake logistically on race day, it was I should have done a little better job with some cooling stuff, some topical cooling stuff at the end of lap two and the start of lap three, because I felt like maybe I was just overheating a little bit starting lap three. So going into that first aid station on lap three, I did a much more thorough job of topically cooling with the ice baths in that aid station to try to kind of make sure I wasn't going to back myself into like an overheating corner and blow up. But what ended up happening then, that third loop ended up being slower. So rather than maintaining pace, I slowed down on loop three, and so finishing loop three, I was very much thinking like to myself, all right, I may have overshot my potential for the day by a little bit, but it wasn't to the degree where I was either ruling out a really fast last lap because as you know it, Javelina, that fifth lap, you can actually get some relief when the sun starts going down. So I hadn't ruled out at that point. Like, if I can just be really good with topical cooling, I'm picking you up as a pacer for loop four. Had Krista Nucci for loop five. I was like, you know, there's a chance that if I just kind of like, keep it cool this lap for the rest of lap three and lap four, that I could just rip a fifth and kind of have like an interesting split where those first two are pretty good. Three and four, kind of like this holding pattern, just kind of like keeping things together. And then lap five is like, let's let it rip. So that was my hope at that point. Um, but I wasn't as confident as I think I probably should have been at that point in hindsight, or as much as I would have liked to, because the way I would describe like a negative split at that point in the race, you should probably be at a spot where you're kind of almost still kind of thinking like you're still a little giddy, as our friend Nick Currie will say, you're still a little giddy about like what you're going to be able to do relative to what you know is going to happen in the front of the field, which is going to be at least some sort of a slowdown. It may not be a catastrophic slowdown, but there's going to be a slowdown of some degree. 2s So now take us through loop three. Want to get a sense of what you were thinking going into loop four? Yeah. So loop four. I was really excited to have you for one because it was like, okay, well, actually, you know, it was funny because on loop three, I only passed one person I passed, I think it was Matt Daniels. Had he hit a rough patch, I think I think he may have DNF shortly thereafter, but he was walking maybe like a mile and a half, two miles into the loop. No, not even maybe one mile into loop three. So it was like, you know, you get a little bit of momentum when you pass someone, regardless of how you're feeling. But I didn't really get that feeling again, that because I didn't pass it, but I didn't even see anybody really, other than, you know, other people that were like at different points in the race that you're you're lapping, I suppose, or at that point there were some Hunter K runners out there. So I was in a big no man's land, like for most of loop three, where I just kind of felt like I was out in the middle of nowhere and I'd. Picking up a pacer in that situation was nice just to have just another person there. But I was very much in and you can probably comment on this. I wasn't in like you know how like when you're pacing someone, sometimes they want you to chat and you want to have a conversation and that helps pass the time. I was very much in a need to focus right now and just kind of maintain what feels like a sustainable effort and just kind of like focus with quiet. So like, I don't think I really said much to you at all that entire lap. No, no, you were really focused. And I mean, I thought you were in the zone, which is a good thing, but. Oh, this is loop four, I think I said three. Sorry. Yeah. And I think it was interesting too, because admittedly I'm used to running against the women's field. Right? I felt like we were running quite a quick pace for a loop for when I was out there with you, and so I was surprised we weren't happening upon anybody else. But everyone in front of you seemed to be holding it together, which was, you know, unusual, I would think, for more of an elite men's field. Usually I'm, I, you know, I don't want to stereotype, but I typically feel like there's a bit more of blowups that we've seen. And so just not passing anybody on loop four, I was a bit surprised as well. So I was trying to rationalize it. Yeah. Say maybe we're coming up on somebody and hold it together. But yeah, I felt like I was a bit surprised. Yeah, yeah. And on loop four was the first loop where I got concrete information as to where I was in the field. I was in fifth. Right. So I got that piece of information, and then I got a piece of information that suggested that there. Well, fifth means for people in front of you that two of the guys in front of me looked really rough and two looked pretty solid. So coming into loop four and a loop four and starting loop five with Chris. I felt actually pretty solid at the end. I felt maybe a little rough for the first two miles of the last four on loop four, but then on two you hit that little kind of canyon section before you turn. And at that point in the day, that mountain range or whatever is on the right hand side sorta kind of gives you like a tiny bit of shade, which is like super foreign to that event during any other point of the day. So it was almost kind of almost like I think it was just like this little bit of a weight off my shoulder from just like the energy of the sun changing. And then I saw Halle Corner out there. So I was like, oh, that's hell corner, because he's a legend in the sport. So it's kind of interesting to see him. But I still had it in my mind that when I pick up Chris, maybe that'll light a spark and I'll just start ripping faster paces in lap five than I did in 3 or 4. Yeah. No, that's what's interesting to hear. And, 1s you know, I think you stayed strong. What were you thinking as it started to transition to, into kind of nightfall? Were you still positive and excited? Yeah. You know, I was positive and I was focused similar to when I was running with you. I would say like over the course of loop five, I think that is where it's set in, that there was a good chance I wasn't going to catch even fourth place. So going into loop five, I was still pretty optimistic that I'd probably catch two more people. I thought at that point I was like, all right, I could get third here with a strong finish. And part of me was just like, well, knowing the field and knowing that Ryan Montgomery was one of the guys ahead of me, which was important in this case scenario because I was talking to Golden Ticket. Ryan's already in Western states, so if he finishes ahead of me, that bears no consequence to Western states. But if he was one of the guys that I would have presumably at that time in my mind passed. It doesn't do me any good either, because he's not a guy that's going to. Well, curious about your reflection because initially you weren't planning to have Pacers. And Chris and I kind of jumped in at the last minute. So in hindsight, are you glad that we paced? You? Did that help? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It did. I think I definitely ran faster because I had you guys there like I'm, I'm weird with Pacers because I've had such weird experiences. I've had experiences where I felt. 1s Better without them. And I've had experiences where I know at the end it's like they saved my race. And specifically with javelin. In 2016, I went to Hovland with no crew or pacers. It was just like I jumped into a sort of last minute to get a Western qualifier, because I was presumably going to get offered a sponsored spot at Western States, and I needed a qualifier that you're having is the last qualifier of the year. So I was really there just for that, and I ended up feeling really good that day. So I ended up kind of pushing things and just going for it. But I didn't really have any aspirations that day, which is why I showed up with no pacer or no crew. But then in 2017, it was like, I'm coming back as the course record holder the previous winter. So I came with the whole deal: the crew, the Pacers, the whole thing. And you know, I had the worst day. But in that situation, I did feel like when I finished loop 3 in 2017, had I not had pacers there that were coming in from out of town, it would have been a lot easier to potentially drop. And I think that there's a potential that they kept me from dropping essentially. So this year I don't think I was dropping without pacers. But in hindsight, looking back and even during the moment, I could kind of tell, like you and Chris were probably pulling me along just a pinch more than I would have on my own because I was in no man's land. Like, I didn't have that visual of someone in front of me where it's like I could get to that person, and I didn't have that person right up behind me. Like having the heat on saying, if I don't keep this thing together, I'm going to get passed. So in that situation, I think Pacers, at least for me anyway, become way more important because they're going to at least give you some of that energy that you would have gotten if you had someone in sight or someone kind of on your tail. Yeah. No. That's interesting. Your perspective. I was curious, and I think we discussed it. So taking it to the finish, you know, you came around and finished in fifth, which is excellent, especially given the field. I mean, what's your perspective? How would you rate your race if you had to give yourself a grade? Yeah, it's a good question. I would say probably like a B-plus maybe. And I would say B-plus because one, I think if you look at my splits. My laps gradually get slower from one to the next, but they're not, like, obtuse. Different from one another where it's like, oh yeah, there's a clear spot where you blew up. So most people, I think, look at my race and be like, wow, that was a really solid race, like a consistent race. But I'm looking at it through the perspective of even being kind of the target. So I know I missed that mark a little bit, but at the end of the day, I also ran a solid race to the point where like, at no point during that race did I feel like like like I was really like in a bad place where I had overplayed my hand to a large degree. So I think I was like, maybe just outside of the proper loading zone, but not enough to have a like a very visible blow up to the point where now also when I run like a 14 or something like that in the time frame. Yeah. So as somebody coming back from injury, which I think a lot of us have been there and does this give you a lot of optimism for the future? Because I think, you know, for those that are maybe in that tough spot and, you know, still not out of it, what does this mean to you. What is that feeling like? Yeah, I mean, that's probably the most exciting thing about it to me is it was the most solid race I've run in a while. So it's kind of like it gets me one step closer to where I want to be. And the way I would describe it is in hindsight, if I could go back and do it all over again, I think the reasonable thing to do would be the same approach, but target like 13, 10 to 1315. I think that might have been the right loading zone for an even split race. I think I saved myself about 20 minutes on overall time and. 1s Add a little bit of time to the first two laps in order to gain significantly more on three, four and five. 1s And that I think that that would have probably been the actual target that I should have had for the day. So I miscalculated that by 20 minutes maybe. So what are you going to do next? Like, I know you're somebody who's always like trying to look at the data and figure out what your next play is. Oh, we're going for 12.5 hours next year. Yeah. No, I somewhat joke, but I think like, here's where I'm at right now. And I will reassess this as the data becomes available to me. But my thought is now and this is kind of a little bit of a full circle on kind of what I said before is like, I see myself as somebody who gains momentum when I can compound training cycles on one another successfully. So like the more training cycles I can have, like the one I just did uninterrupted with just reasonable off seasons in between, I think the closer I get to making that 1255 to 13 an actual like number, that is an even split type of a target. So, you know, if we're thinking of it in the context of if I would go back to Javelina next year, my assumption right now would be I'll have a couple more build ups and races and I'll be in a position where hopefully that would be something that's with the same effort, would just produce closer to 1255 to 13. So it sounds like maybe I have aspirations to have a number for next year. I'm sort of putting myself in a position where I have to kind of think about that, right? It's one of those things where I think I had a well, here's the thing to have is now what I would consider. Fairly unarguably the second most competitive hunter miler in the United States, at least from a depth standpoint. I mean, Western States is the big boy in the United States, for sure. And I don't think anything is really, like, really closing in on it at an accelerated rate. But if there were a race that is starting to get to the point where it is like getting that second spot notoriety, it would be Javelina. And I think we saw that last year on the women's field, for sure. Last year's women's field was absolutely loaded, and it was really unique too, because it had like proven runners there, young runners there. This year, I would say the men's field, it had some proven runners there, but it also had a lot of young new guys that showed off their potential at the race itself, including Blake, who got second place, who broke 13 hours on his first 100 miler, became what was the third person to ever break 13 hours at javelin 100. So it's like we're getting to that point where I think the hobbling 100 going forward is going to be a race where you're going to get people who are proven going up to that golden ticket, and then you're also going to get young newcomers of the sport who are going to take their first swing at 100 miles. And like anything in that department, you're going to get some that connect like Blake did, and you're going have some that blow up epically and maybe never come back or come back and try to figure it out. And then you're going to get people who are like that, you're also going to get people who aren't really ready for the race necessarily, or didn't focus on it, but see it as an opportunity and jump in it. And I just love that course and that event so much that it's hard to pass on that opportunity to have that exposure to competition. And race for a golden ticket race and really test my limits, which are all cool things, I think. Like, I think the thing that motivates me the most about ultrarunning is I love the process of building up and seeing that development occur over a training cycle. And then I love testing it on race day, so I don't need to feel like I'm going to be better than somebody or even better than myself necessarily on race day. As long as I can kind of like run that process and get the gratification from it. So like Javelina sort of offers that as well as some bonus stuff, is the way I look at it versus a race that maybe has like a very small field or a field with not a ton of competition or a field with a ton of competition, but is in an environment that isn't as exciting to me because I like runnable courses, and Javelina is a very runnable course. Versus like, if I would go to say like Utmb, I'd get all the competition I could ever hope for. But it's not a course I typically enjoy as much as one like Javelina, so it's hard to say no to Abilene, is what I'm saying. Yeah, no. So it sounds like October 2024 is already planned. Well, unless you try to get to it first, I guess because I think you have first dibs. I think my Western states. Maybe you're not chasing any golden tickets. 1s You are chasing something, though. I mean, we're recording this podcast a little about a week after Javelina, but that gave us enough time for you to find yourself on a race course. So what did you do? Yes. This weekend? Yeah. I can't say that I necessarily won the IQ test, but I did jump in a 50 K and, you know, was able to pull off a good result and get a gold coin. They say for Leadville. So I have a 1s I need to apply for the race in August of next year. So you have a target for your race schedule for next year starting to form itself. Yeah. You know, it's funny because I was just on a podcast with Andy Jones. Wilkins, who's kind of a bit of a legend in this sport because he's got all sorts of he's a historian, I would say for sure. And he, you know, he's run some great races back in the day to whenever I think of AJ now, I think of someone I think I might have asked him or someone asked him what the someone was referencing. It was some sort of dialogue about like, ah, like the old runners are worse than the new runners. And how do we say that? It was some like advancements in the sport type conversation. And someone had a suggestion about like, oh, well, back in the day, they used to have people on bikes handing them nutrition, kind of like crewing them on the fly, suggesting that maybe they had it easier back then. Yeah. And then I was like, well, wait a second here. I think there's probably some tech advancements that would be advantageous to run faster now. So I asked Andy. I was like, what were the flashlights like back then? He's like, we used to put DSL batteries and we tape, tape these handheld things to these DSL battery life lights. But anyway, I'm getting way off topic. But anyway, so I was on his podcast, Cracker Brew with J.W., and one of the topics he wanted to cover was how we kind of navigate race scheduling, given that we're living together, married, and we both race ultramarathons. And he's like, well, you guys have to get around to picking races you're going to peak for. And what happens is there's conflict there. Are there any sort of issues? And I kind of told him, like our approach is more or less we kind of believe that the event is going to pick you as much as you're going to pick it in terms of like an inspirational target and things like that. So usually what happens is one of us gets inspired by an event for one reason or the other, and then that becomes. Known because we talk about it with one another and then like, like that's my signal that, well, I'm probably not going to necessarily do that event because I want to support you in most cases. So like, it kind of almost kind of happened over the last couple of weeks where like you're kind of you've been kind of thinking about your, your race schedule next year and just wondering what it was going to look like. And then like Leadville kind of looked like an interesting option. And then if Leadville is something you want to consider, the Rattler 50 K makes so much sense because you can auto qualify with it there and not have to deal with the lottery. So as you mentioned, you got your gold coin there and sort of earmarked Leadville. So it looks like I'm not doing Leadville next year. Yeah. Well, you know, I think it's hard for us both to do the same goal race. It's just like logistically it's hard. And maybe I may rely on you too much, but I really like when you can pace me. Especially at a race like Leadville where you can. Leadville is not one we should do together, I don't think. Yeah, I think there's races we can do because there's just so much like, yeah, there's so much like history and energy and opportunities for people that would be like equal replacements to help out in. I mean, I think Western states may be one of those because you've had so much support from other people than me with success at Western States, you could easily kind of get that energy from it. But there is definitely that sort of mental tax of wondering how the other person's doing while you're trying to work hard out there, which I don't think is necessarily always positive. But yeah, Leadville makes I don't think makes no sense in both of us doing it the same time, because it's so unique in that your pacer can crew can essentially mule for you, which is rare, then you can learn the course. So when you go and run it in a future year, it's beneficial. But you know, I'm probably getting towards the end of my aspirations, but I felt like this was another one that I'd like to check the box on. And I think this was my second 100 miler. In 2013. So I think the last ten miles I pretty much was hobbling it in. 1s And so just kind of have some, some aspirations of redemption. Well, speaking of that race, wasn't that you were so new to the sport back then, didn't you drop your pace and therefore lose your nutrition? Yeah, I had no nutrition. I mean, there was kind of a recipe for disaster in a hundred miles. I mean, well, I just didn't know any better, but it was, you know, looking back, it's fun. I mean, I think it just again goes to why you say it's really an adult outdoor recess, right? I mean, the consequences were low, but I would like to give it a better shot this time. And, you know, maybe spend some time at altitude just because that is the aspect where, you know, it's a little challenging training. But I like that that course is more runnable as well. So. So you're telling me to pack up the podcast studio and take it on the road for at least a period of time leading into Leadville next year? Yeah, I need a chance to take the dogs and go to the mountains, I think it is a win. Well, summer's like it was this year in Austin. I'm all for heading to the mountains for a block a time in the summer, but what's up next? So I think after this podcast, after we get off, don't delay because we need to book our vacation. Oh, you're on. You're all over that now. Yeah. Your race season's done. So you're all looking for vacation destinations without races tied to them, which is a rarity in our case. Yeah, yeah. Just need some need some time away. So. All right, well we'll do that I will I will share before we do go though. For some people who are here to kind of get the data stats from the race recap. I'm actually not going to dive into that on this podcast, because I've done some pretty good write ups with that information. So check out my Substack, which is just my blog, essentially, and there's a link in the show notes and on the episode links that has literally like data from lap splits to data to like what I was drinking. Like I took really good nutrition data from this race. So if you're curious about things like how many calories did I take in, how many carbohydrates, fats, proteins, what did what made up those macronutrients, how much flu did they take and how much lecture? I have all of that basically to the gram and to the exact product. So head over to my Substack, which is just Substack or Zach bitter.substack.com. Or like I said, the link will be in the show notes too. If you want to head over there and check out any of that information. But I won't bore Nicole with that information. She hates that stuff. No, that's not true. Alright. Well, thanks for joining me, Nicole was fun to recap with you. It was a highlight of my day. Alright. There we go.