Episode 368: Kristian Morgan Breaks 2,200 Mile Appalachian Trail Record
Kristian Morgan is an ultramarathon athlete who focuses on long trail projects. He currently holds the second fastest completion of the Appalachian Trail, which he completed in 44 days 4 hours 54 minutes. Kristian Morgan has set a new Fastest Known Time (FKT) (supported) Southbound on the Appalachian Trail, completing the 2,200 miles in 45 days, 4 hours and 27 minutes.
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Episode Transcript
Christian, welcome back to the show. The listeners didn't hear it, but you just cracked open a brew. What are you celebrating, buddy? 1.8s
Oh, yeah. The southbound Appalachian Trail fKt. Yeah. Is for that.
Very cool. Yeah. For the listeners who are either new or are unaware. Christian, you came on the show. How long ago was that? That was probably at least a year ago at this point.
No, it was actually earlier this year. Was it that early? Man my perception of time has just been so off kilter basically since the pandemic. It's been skewed to some degree. But since we moved to Austin, I feel like I'm just now getting efficient within the city where right now I have my routine fully established. I know where everything's at. I'm not like making up for the inefficiencies that I'm relearning. And that time goes by so fast. From when you start, everything kind of is a bit of a blur. But yeah, I guess that wasn't that long ago, so. But um, you have good reason to come back on. I mean, we were talking about just the overall topic, I think of some of this like longer ultramarathon or fKt type stuff that is a segment of the ultrarunning community and just what all goes into that, how it differs and things. And I mean these things are super impressive, super long, super logistic dependence and all sorts of stuff. So when you reached out and said, Hey, I you, I think we talked about your attempt, I think on the last show or your attempt to, well, this is your fourth time, right, if I remember correctly, right?
Correct. Yeah. Your fourth attempt of the southbound Appalachian Trail record. It was cool to see that you went and did it. Let's chat about that a bit.
Yeah, mean it. Yeah, it was interesting actually, listening to your show because I know you started to have some longer, longer distance ultra runners, I think. Did Picasso come to your show? He was
on my show quite a while ago, actually, so I was still in Phoenix, I think when he came on. I had John Kelly on most recently. He's probably the most recent long hauler that
actually listen to that. Yeah. No, because. No, because I know your personal interest. Also planning to run across America. Um, and yeah, so obviously you're going to take a natural interest into what someone describes as mega running, um, you know, you know, like the multi multi-stage, multi-week multi-month kind of running. So yeah, I felt it was probably a good call to give you a shout. And yeah, here I am, like with the, the southbound record just got officially recognized by fastest known times yesterday. Um, and, and it's less than two weeks ago I stepped off the trail. My last day was 85 miles and 20 17,000ft of gain on a gnarly trail and yeah I'm I feel like you know, I feel like it's such a long time ago now. I'm already starting to miss the trail as well.
You're back out of hibernation after catching up on all the sleep deprivation and you're ready to do some podcasts. 1.4s
Yeah, yeah, totally for sure. But actually talking about, um, the sleep now, I'm still having a good deep sleep. Um, I'm really slow. Uh, you know, walking around and stuff. It takes some kind of healing to come back from something like this. Um, I'm joking. I was in a supermarket the other day, and there was one tasty looking apple and a 75 year old beat me to go and get it. You know 1.7s
That's what'll happen. You go from the fittest you could possibly be to the least capable in a very well, I guess it's a long period of time giving this, but it probably doesn't feel that way to you that, you know, it's actually an interesting starting point. I think if we go from reverse here and just talk about I'm I'm really interested in the post effort, just how that all works. So I know we touched on it a little bit last time you're on, but what is your protocol after something like this? Is there a specific time frame you look at where you're like, I am going to give myself at least this much time before I even attempt a run or a hike? How does that process work? 1.3s
You know, I'm very. I'm such an intuitive person. Um, when I was probably younger, I would think to myself, maybe I'm unorganized or unstructured, but now I realize actually, I'm, um, really intuitive. And what that ultimately means, I guess, is that I listen to my body, I listen to my, my, myself. And so, yeah, I mean, the good thing is, I did this last year, you know, I ran the Appalachian Trail a day faster last year. You know, I ran northbound. Was it 44 days in four hours, Second fastest time in the world. Uh, and then this year, I ran the third fastest time in the world. So last year I went through the whole recovery process. And no, I don't have a I don't have a prescribed date or day. I'm going to run. Um, but what I do know is that when I start exercising again, at the moment it's just walking, you know, I just want to, I just want to walk around, you know, I'll walk. And when I start feeling it's time to exercise, the first things I'm going to do are strength through form, mobility and stretching or yoga or, you know, so they're the two things I'm going to target. But very light, just like I say, strength through full mobility, full range of motion just to get my mobility back. Because what happens when you do something like this you end up with this ultra shuffle, you know, and your stride becomes less and less and less. So you kind of lose your range of motion and want to get that back first. So going on intuition, but at the same time, yeah, let's get the mobility back first. So that's my first step. That will be my first step. I'm not there yet. Yeah,
That's really interesting to hear. And it sounds like you're waiting for a signal that your body is going to give you that you're familiar with that says, okay, now it's time to start this process versus really mapping it out as, Oh, in X days I'll be ready to start this. And that's when the train leaves the station, so to speak. 1.2s
Yeah, just waiting. Just. It'll be a feeling, you know, the sign and the signal will disappear. Feeling. I'll probably wake up and think, You know what? This week I think I'm going to actually do this or this week. Let's go. And today I want to do a strength yoga session or something like that. Yeah, it'll just be a feeling which comes and I'll act upon it and yeah, that will be my step back in the direction of, you know, you obviously build it up to getting back into competing and stuff.
Yeah. I'm especially interested in hearing your approach with that because for one, you've just done this a bunch of times, whereas I think a lot of people listening will probably think, well, if I were to ever do the Appalachian Trail or any of these long, long mega, mega runs. They're probably doing it at least somewhat as a one off versus something they're going to do repetitively, or if they do it more than once or a few times, it's going to maybe have a much larger gap between the sessions than what years have been. So clearly you've discovered a process that works, that gets you back out there and effectively, too, because you're coming here to talk about the fastest known time. Now I just got it done. So 1s
yeah, yeah. No, I never thought about that, actually. Yeah, I guess that proves that I've worked out how to recover, I guess, you know? Yeah. I mean, I never even thought about
that. It's like a reproducible model that's been consistent for you, so it's really, really neat to see. I think the other thing I find interesting about what you talked about too, is just what comes first when you start feeling ready. And that actually is interesting because, you know, when I was originally planning to do the TransCon and got injured leading into it, obviously I didn't go through the process of running across the country and navigate the recovery from that. But I got injured from training that was relatively specific to that. So I think one of the biggest mistakes I made after that was made, I maybe didn't invest as much time and energy into what you just described before I got back into training and then had to deal with some of that like range of motion mobility issues. That was kind of a bit of a carryover from that prior build because the specific stuff I was doing was much slower than I normally would because I was anticipating I'd be going much slower on a project like that than I would for the single day. Ultra. And in hindsight, I think I would have done that differently. And what you described kind of maps, what I suspect I probably should have done. 1.3s
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, we never spoke about it last year, but because I remember thinking afterwards, Oh, it would have been good to mention that. But actually, what part of my recovery last year was to step away from the Appalachian Trail and do something which created a sense of freedom. Because when I was on the trail, one, you're supported, so you are surrounded by people. There were three things: One, support you supported. Two, it's a set route and then three, it was timed. So when I came off trail last year, I said, Right, I really want to do something, which is none of those three. So I cycled 1000 miles across France and Spain. I didn't mention that. I
I don't think you did on the podcast, but I do remember hearing about that. So maybe you mentioned it to me over email or something like that.
Yeah. So. So the thousand mile bike across Spain was not timed. I didn't have a time limit. It was unsupported. I was by myself with some touring panniers, a camping stove, a tent and so on. Um, and it was with an unstructured route so I could take any route I decided I wanted to take across France and Spain. So for me, that was it took me a month, 1000 miles, and it was the complete opposite of, uh, of the Appalachian Trail, like I said, which was structured, timed in a set route. So I think having that freedom and also decompressing as well. So I haven't actually got anything like that lined up, lined up this year. Um, have some other commitments or. Things which are taking priority like I'm at my father's at the moment. He's not doing too well. He's not very well with his health. So I'm putting myself aside to take care of that. But after I leave my father's, I, I sure could do with another thousand by two months. But yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. So 1s maybe do something else. But I think that played a big part in having that. I mean, as you know, you're you know, you've been training for many years and 1.3s there's I think you need that. We need some balance in our lives as ultra runners and athletes. And, you know, if you're always chomping at the bit, if you're always on 100% go, you know, you want you won't have that longevity. Where I really like to think that yeah, I mean, I've been going 23 years now, you know, I'm 46 years old. I've had no major injuries and I look up to people like so whose record broke? And, um. Jeff Browning, of course. And, and some of these people who are a couple of decades or if not a few years older than me. So yeah, I think longevity is pretty important in this sport for me personally. You know, I don't want to just 1.4s not be able to continue doing what I love. So yeah,
age is another topic I wanted to address with you, but if you don't mind, I'll hold on to that one because I want to finish up the stuff on that post run stuff. The other thing I'm really interested in here is things start to renormalize over time, like what you described physically and then you kind of get back to it. Another aspect of this type of project is just the way that you have to eat. You're eating. I believe your briefing suggested it was like 6 to 8000 calories a day which you're hitting all throughout the trail. So obviously when you finish, there's a window of time where you're probably regaining some weight that you lost over the course of that project. But is there like a point in time where you start noticing like my appetite is starting to renormalize to my current activity level versus what you are doing out there? Is that a quick shift or is that something that takes time to kind of recalibrate? 1.3s
Yeah. So I'm actually on the trail. For those who don't know, I'd start the day with 500 calories. So five, 600 calories. So wouldn't leave for the first hour, but then every 30 minutes for 45 days I ate 150 calories, you know, and I'm pretty impressed with that. Which adds up to the 6 to 8000, depending on how much dinner I had. Uh, I mean, that was like a job, you know, Eventually the skin wore away from my tongue towards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, talked about fatigue. Uh, it wasn't my legs. It was my. The skin on my tongue. And. And it became really, um, you know, I mean, I dealt with it. It was one of the small hardships I had to endure was, uh, I actually ate £1 of blueberries a day. These wild blueberries you can buy from these supermarkets and in three smoothies the day, including the breakfast. But the acidity eventually, I think, um, antagonized the wearing of the skin on my tongue. As for my diet normalizing when I came back. Yeah. I'm still less around ten days post. Like I say last day, it's very early days. Uh, I what I don't want to do is gain a load of weight. Last year I did put on about ten kilograms, which is £20, which is quite a lot, and didn't really feel very good about myself and I didn't enjoy that, you know, it wasn't great for me. Um, and then in 21, the same thing, I allowed the same thing to happen. So this year I'm kind of taking the approach of more high protein fat. Um, I don't really think my body needs that kind of sugar, um, that are probably needed on the Appalachian Trail. Would I say I've normalized my diet yet and 1s I wouldn't say so now. Actually, I'm starting to get a hunger now just talking about it. 1.5s You know, really, I'm at my father's house and he's an avid. 1.1s Fan of cooking and a great chef not in profession, but in hobby. And he's got all these frozen meals in his fridge, I think today had a lemon drizzle cake, a cheesecake yesterday, had some paella with chicken and. 1s Out on this territory stuff. And every day I'm having some of his food. And so it's a hard place not to be indulging, you know, especially when it's made by a family member who may not be doing very well at the moment. You want to kind of, you know, soak up his love.
Yeah, It sounds like he needs to set up a little diner just on the end of the Appalachian Trail to catch you guys coming off. 1.2s
I'm telling you, man, if he'd like Rogers homemade pies or something, he'd do all
right. That's funny. All right. 1.8s Um, awesome. Yeah. I think it's just really interesting to kind of learn and hear about the process in the aftermath of these sorts of things. Because I mean, if you look into the sport or that end of it, there's definitely some variance there where you see people who maybe kind of get a little too carried away and potentially never return to their former self after something like this versus people like yourself who are clearly both physically and mentally motivated to keep doing it. And I mentioned it before. Age is an interesting piece of this puzzle to me because we're talking 2200 miles. So the intensity has to be low. So it takes away a little bit of that, I guess, you need to have that youthful speed available to you. You obviously don't want to be like, immobile, but. I wonder where the age of like prime would be, something where you have that perfect balance where you might have 23 years of experience but still young enough to move well enough compared to even your younger self to make something like this very much within reach? Do you have any thoughts on that? Because I think Carl was maybe a couple of years older than you when he originally set the record, right?
Yeah. I am 48 years old. Yeah. Um, and I think recovery plays a big part, too. Uh, but actually, when I was with Carol Saab back in 2018, I asked myself, um, quite, um. 1.4s And 1.3s realistically, I said to myself, Christian, because I was running behind Carol for about 35 miles a day for 15 days of his attempt. And he's a phenomenal athlete. And I said to myself, Christian, is this pace fast? 1.1s And the answer was no. Three times, you know, And like then I was 41 years old, you know, so not much older than I am now, a younger brother. So even Carol, in his late 20s doing something like this, held the pace and 1.5s had quite a slow, steady pace. In fact, one of Carol surveys, um, 1s you know, he's aware he just reinvented the Pacific Crest Trail record. Yeah yeah he did very well out there. And one of his quotes which stuck with me while I was out on the Appalachian Trail, because you get inspired by sometimes things people say was. 1.9s Was that something like. 1.6s Run slow to be fast. And that stuck with me because and I also remember Joe McConaughey saying whenever he would try to push his pace because Joe McConaughey has the self-supported record on the Appalachian Trail. He said whenever he would try to push himself, he would pay for it the next day or his knee would hurt or some part of his body would complain. So I wouldn't really say that I would move any quicker. Um, I mean, Carol wasn't moving any quicker. I don't know if my younger self would move quicker, but I certainly know recovery is an issue because if you can't go to sleep and 6 to 7 hours, wake up and repeat another 50 mile day with like 11,000ft of gain and loss over gnarly terrain, then you're out of the game. You know, you're game over. You know, you get out and like it's not going to happen for you. So. 1.3s Um, as for Pace, I think the pace is, yeah, there's going to be a certain I'm sure there's a certain time frame where you're like, You know what? That's too slow. Like 20 hours a day on track is too much. So yeah, I don't think I've, I don't think I've hit at the age of 46. I don't think I've started to hit that downward curve yet. In terms of pace recovery, I really don't know. Some scientists made a pretty interesting gun. Um, I am currently analyzing the data for a study that they have done on me. They're the same guys that studied, um, um, 1.2s Jerry McConaughey when he did his Arizona trail. I forget the guy's names, but yeah, so when that data comes out, that'll be very interesting. Um, I'll be sure to share it, you know, on my Instagram and so on. But yeah, I really wouldn't think that if I was 26 or if I'm 46 would be going any faster on the trail. Um,
yeah. It almost seems like the necessary pace is slow enough where it's more about just how much more efficient you can get with the non-moving points of the trip than it is about speeding up at any given time. So it's like, can you manage to sneak an extra 30 minutes of moving time in because you weren't stopping as much or because you were more efficient getting out in the morning and just maybe like that knowledge base that you have of being on that trail, so much is going to give you some of that relative efficiency. 1.1s You know what, Zach? Like, I think you've totally got it there because that elapsed time and moving time. You really want to bring it down. I mean, I was pretty strict early on and I would have what was called moving road crossings. So I would see the crew and I wouldn't stop moving. I would change what someone would hold a pack out. I would always change back. I'd never refill the pockets in my pack. It was always change your pack after eight miles or whatever, 15 miles, change the pack. Um. 1.1s And then just carry on. That was it. Drink. I had two Monster energy drinks a day. And so sometimes I drink one of those. Like I said, I had a pound of wild blueberries every day, so I'd have my blueberry smoothie. But I started to get a little bit lazy, if I'm honest. Where could I improve next year if I was going to go? For the record. My moving road crossings turned into. Right. Let's have just ten minutes in the chair.
You know, maybe emotionally I needed that. I don't know. I mean, this certainly this year I felt I started to feel like I wanted to sit down. I wanted a bit of time with people, wanted to have some company. I mean, I ran those 2200 miles, um, 95% of the time by myself. So if that's the correct mathematics, I had about 200 miles of runners and 2000 miles of me by myself. So when I came in to see the crew, which consisted of Gun Section and IceMan, I just wanted to be with these guys for a little bit. And then I was happy to move on. So maybe that was an emotional need rather than a physical need to sit down. But yeah, I'd say. Its moving time over elapsed time is the difference between an fKt and 1.4s not getting some kind of record.
Sure. I mean, you highlighted a couple really important points I think, that are just good pieces of 1.4s feedback that any ultrarunner can take and kind of use as they're planning to race, in my opinion. And one is just like, let's be efficient in a station transition. So we're not like, say, standing there for two minutes when in theory you could be walking for two minutes and you maybe don't carry cover that much ground, but you extrapolate that over ten, eight stations. Now you may be talking about getting to the finish line a mile or two earlier or something like that. So it can be meaningful. But there is the mental psychological piece of the puzzle where I thought about ultramarathons. I'd be curious about how maybe this is even different with something as long as you're doing it when you find yourself creating too big of a goal at once, it gets overwhelming. So like if you're thinking about mile hundred from the get go, you're going to burn yourself out mentally thinking about that versus I just need to get to the first aid station. So you almost need these small motivators along the way. So if it is something where like, well, this one aid station, I am going to sit in for five minutes and talk to my crew and really kind of use that as a motivating point to focus on that can distract me from the finish. That might be a powerful tool to keep you moving at Uranus. Clip through the other parts and not get overwhelmed and deterred from that. 1.4s
Yeah. You know, to think about the end of anything, but maybe, I mean even A5K, you know, because you're going so much faster and you're so much more in more pain. Um, I think about most things in life. Thinking about the finish point. Actually, I like to go back to the Lanny bashing rifle shooter in the Olympics. Fantastic. He's been on the trail Running Nation podcast and a fantastic mental management coach. And what he says is the difference between the gold medal winners and the silver medal winners. The gold medal winners are not thinking about the results. The silver medal winners. Okay, maybe let's not stereotype here, but the people who don't get the gold are the people who are thinking about the outcome rather than the process. So the so you're having, like you say, like stopping with the crew having a even if it's a four minute. 1.1s You know, trying to break up what you're about to do and digest it may be the difference between 1.4s mentally burning out, you know. And so, yeah, I think stopping for me on the Appalachian Trail, you know, while I was out there and like I say, it wasn't always ten minutes, Sometimes it was three minutes, I'd start my stopwatch and I'd say, okay, like 3 minutes or 4 minutes and 15 seconds. So I was always aware of how long I was sitting in that small chair that I had, but for me it became, well, I guess nothing is essential, but it kind of helped me emotionally, I guess. Physically, like I say, it doesn't really make a difference. In fact, it probably makes it harder if you sit down for four minutes and if you carry on rowing, you know. But I just needed that company and maybe that would have changed if I had a pacer every day with me. And I don't know, I was a higher sponsored athlete and had three runners with me and like these guys were going to do sections with me. But no, I was by myself and I just felt I wanted a little bit of interaction. Not much. I mean, in total it probably came down to, I don't know, 25 minutes a day, 15 to 16 hours of moving on the trail. Yeah. So, yeah,
yeah. You mentioned having people out there. Has there been any information available on the top performances? How many were done with more people? Like more, I guess I'm interested, like you said, you had about 200 of your 2200 miles with somebody with you. Did some of these other guys like Scott Jr Carl Meltzer, did they do it with more support in terms of pacing or someone with them? For less, I guess.
Yeah. I mean, like that. Yeah. I mean, I know Scott had I think the number was 50% of the time. He was on the trail. He had people with him, but they weren't Pacers. They were fine. Okay.
Yeah. Scott just got too popular. 1.1s
Yeah, that's super popular. Where his comments delayed his tracker because he didn't want people with him. And in fact, this year I ran with people who had run with both these guys. You know, they said, Oh, when? When I ran with Carl or ran it when I ran with Scott. And it was always, oh, when I ran with Scott, he was, um, yeah, there were a lot of people, there were sometimes 15 people behind Scott Jurek. Whereas when I ran with Carl, uh, 1.4s colleges said, Hey, listen, you can run with me, but I'm going to wear my headphones. He didn't really want people with him. And then he, I think some of the people got dropped when they were with Carl. And so I think it's just different. I wouldn't say that something I don't think there's a right or wrong answer there. It's a bit like what color? Which painting over there on that wall do you prefer not to choose the same painting? Yeah. Yes. I definitely think for me personally, having someone come in and just do a small section would benefit the athlete, in my opinion, you know?
Yeah. And I don't even know that it's necessarily a standard from my own person. It may even be from event to event in terms of what your preference is. I know my best example of this is that I think about this one now just because I'm preparing for the Javelin 100 at the moment, but I've done it twice before. I did it in 2016 and 2017 and 2016. I went there. I wouldn't say on a whim, but I was there at the last minute because I needed a Western states qualifier. So I went out there, no crew, no Pacer. I just needed to go out there and, you know, finish this thing and get the qualifier. And if I feel good, I'll push and I just happen to feel good that day. So I found myself breaking the course record that day, but I did it without any crew or Pacer. And I don't think I would have done any better with a Pacer, to be honest with you, because for whatever reason, that day I was just feeling good out there by myself doing my thing. Whereas in 2017, when I went back, I mean, in hindsight, I think I maybe just went. I pushed the pace a little too early and paid for it a bit. So when I came through that third of five loops and picked up my first pacer, I'm not sure I'm going back out without the pacer there. Remember coming in thinking like, this is going to be a tough finish? And I remember thinking my one pacer came in from Southern California. The other one came down from Flagstaff. They were out there all day. There's no way I'm going to come in here and say, Hey, guys, thanks for coming, but I'm dropping. So it was like, Let's get out there and do this next lap and then pick up the next one and do the final lap. And you know, I ended up running relatively decent, but not as good as the year before, but I probably would have DNF without the Pacers that year. So it was just the same event, a totally different experience. And yeah, it's interesting to hear your thoughts on that sort of thing. 1.1s
Yeah, I mean, I had, like I said, a good 200 miles of, um. That's a rough estimate by the way, if people come out and pace me. Um, and. 1.8s There were some people who I felt energized me, and there were also some people who I felt demotivated me or like took some of my energy as in my mental energy. So if there was one particular guy, I'm not going to mention any names, but he came out on trail and there were a few of mine on the last day. I had a few requirements and one of them was, okay, I'm going to do so. I had a 40 mile push to the finish and I had four runners and I said, Right, let's divide the 40 miles up into ten, ten and ten. This is what I said to my crew. Let's have a runner with me for each one of those ten miles. So don't get stagnant with one runner and one the first runner who came out said, Right, I'm going to do 30 something miles with you. And I phoned up my crew. I was like, Hey, is there anyone taking charge? I've got this runner here. He told me he's going to do 33 miles. And they said, Yeah, listen, we told him. I said, Hold on, put on your loudspeaker. So put a gun section on the loudspeaker. She said, Yeah, yeah, yeah. We said ten miles. Then put the phone down. So I felt really uncomfortable because. 1.3s The person who is with me had been given the rules and then my energy started to be distracted from what I was doing to actually thinking, Oh, this guy is like not even really listening to what my crew is saying and he's really doing what he wants to suit him or they're doing what they want to suit them. And that took my energy a bit. Whereas then the next person I saw said, Hey, I'm out here to pace. You want to do what helps you in the record attempt? Dude, if you want me to, if you get bored of me or anything, I'm going to step off trail. Listen, I'm here to serve you. So that kind of energized me. So depending on the person and their lack of that, I guess how selfish or selfless they were, um, energized me or energized me, you know? I know that seems quite a needy thing to do, but, you know. Yeah. I mean, the guy who was running with me. Hey, this is your race. This is your attempt. You want to do it the way you want to do it. So, yeah, if people don't play by the rules sometimes and maybe they're out there to just invest in their experience, that might not work. That doesn't work for me
Yet, you know? I mean, that's really interesting because I think it's like
you're stretched
thin in terms of your mental bandwidth and what you're able to tolerate and not tolerate with these things where. When you have a situation where it becomes more mentally taxing than it would otherwise, that's a huge hit that can impact you, impact the day, which can spiral into multiple days, I would imagine. And. You don't necessarily know what that is or when it's going to happen. So I would just imagine, like as someone out there, you just got to take your word for it because unless you're like neglecting something like you're fueling or your hydration and then you have a crew member force you to do something that they know is going to be a bad end outcome if you don't. You know, stuff like that, I think, yeah, you have to, like, lean on your intuition and know like, this is going to be what makes my mind more at peace at the moment. So let's go with this. So I think you're in a position where greed is necessary if you want to call it that in any way. 1.1s
Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. You need it when you're putting yourself into something again and it doesn't really matter if it's a super long trail or a 100 miles. I think the more energy you can put into it and the less energy which is almost lost thinking or being distracted about something else, the better you're going to do. It comes down to your focus and your energy. So yeah, like it's it's essential, you know, if you want to do well to be greedy with your energy and I mean have no problems with, you know, the more self-confident you are to say, hey, this is this is how I want to do it, this is going to work good for me. So let's do it this way. Otherwise it's not. I'm sorry, but that doesn't work for me. Might be an uncomfortable situation with the person at the time, but yeah, it's going to serve you better. Yeah. The
Another thing I wanted to kind of go back and ask you about the nutrition side of things was you mentioned your protocol where you were doing I think it was 150 calories every 30 minutes. And, you know, I haven't really. Given this as much thought as I probably should, where like, you have these like, kind of common understandings with single day ultras or even, you know, shorter multi-day versions of those. That there's going to be a chance that there's a digestive issue and that may greatly impact what happens that day for you. I think the data at the moment suggests like 60% of participants are going to experience some form of gastrointestinal issue. And of those, 60%, about half of them will be severe to the point where it's really impeding your progress. So, I mean, I guess there's no reason to believe that that can happen given what you're doing, but perhaps with a larger consequence in the sense that the sooner you're able to kind of rally that back, the more on point you can become. Again, what is the digestion process like? Are you dealing with issues? Are you just uniquely capable of taking in a lot of fuel without having a lot of issues with it? I'm really curious on how those presented problems that you maybe weren't anticipating or maybe they didn't. 1.7s
Yeah, the first few days. I mean, so yeah, like I said, 6 to 8006 on the low end, eight on the upper end. That's about that. The first few days I believe, especially day one, you'd probably not need that many calories because you still have. 1.7s You. Your engine is not really your furnace is not hot yet. But like after day ten, you're, you know, you're really your metabolism is super high. You're burning everything you put inside of yourself. Um, so it was hard to begin with to eat that many calories. Uh, you know, um. 1.3s And but as the days went by, as I started to feel, I don't know, I started to feel right. This is great. I'm actually using what I eat. I'm using energy along the trail. Um, 2.1s so. And as for eating every 30 minutes, I don't know. I wouldn't consider myself unique like anybody else. I mean, I did have stomach issues. Like I remember one time the gun section was buying Ben and Jerry's and I was eating that and then I ate a whole pint of it one night and the next day I felt pretty bad. So then she switched from dairy to plant based Ben and Jerry's, and one time she left that. I mean, you don't have a refrigeration system in the crew car and we just have like ice boxes and it was like day 3 or 4. And there was still some of this ice cream left and I ate it. And I thought, this kind of taste is a bit not great. 2.2s Yeah. And then I felt pretty sick and you kind of got over it. I mean, I think it's probably the longer the distance, the lesser impact. If you have a stomach issue, the shorter the distance, the greater impact it will have. Even with these 200 milers, it's probably a bit better than if it's, say, a 50 miler. So I mean, you can ride out a bad stomach. So I always had a protocol like if you feel sick, just don't eat for a bit, you know, just your stomach handles it. Um, and I also found actually it was kind of interesting if I ever calorie bombed, that was a bad idea. I remember Carl Meltzer saying, don't feast and don't find them so don't have too much and don't have not enough. And one time I came in and I'd camp. So the difference between my attempt is some nights I was going in you know wasn't I was supported but I would have an overnight pack and I would camp out on the trail by myself, you know, no one would set up my sleep system. Um, I would take in my own tent. All these things camp out on the trail just like a through hiker and on, on on 2 or 3 occasions because I didn't want to carry too much. I didn't carry in an overnight meal. You know, I just said, okay, I'll just go with my snacks. But that just totally didn't work. So eating at the end of the day, you need to eat a hundred. Sorry. You need to have a big amount of calories because on those occasions where I didn't have a meal the next day, I just felt super empty. I had no energy and, you know, bummed. I phoned up the crew. I was like, Hey, guys, I just, um, I'm stumbling here. You know, I've asked a couple of three hikers I've passed for bars, but I'm in trouble. And when I got in and then instead of having like 150 calories every 30 minutes, I had some of these 600 calories, it was too much for my stomach to handle. Then I had the opposite effect of, okay, now, yeah, I've got food, I'm really tired, I've got no energy because my body's trying to digest this food. So. Yeah, I did have my stomach issues. Um, and as you go on a 2000 mile journey, you learn to change things and adapt on the way. So instead of going out with, like, a hydrated camping meal, which can weigh £2 in weight or maybe two and a half pounds, you go with like a quarter pounder with cheese, a couple of chicken nuggets and an a cold espresso from McDonald's in the morning, you know, and that's much lighter than carrying out a super hydrated camping meal that people have added water to and stuff. So yeah, I learned along the way, but I did have my stomach issues as well. Yeah,
I would imagine there's definitely some unpredictable nature to that. But you have some precedents probably like how you navigate those situations and it sounds like you kind of know what to do and then how to bounce back from it. Um, the other thing I wanted to talk to you about was, if I'm not mistaken, like you had a plan to start this, and that plan just was kind of continually interrupted by bad weather to the degree where you didn't start until six weeks after your original target date, if I'm not mistaken.
Correct.
Yeah. So that's wild to me because for one, I'm thinking of just like and perhaps it's different for something like this, but I'm just thinking like you're going into your preparation, assuming there's this date and then that date shows up six weeks later. I'd be curious about how you navigate that timeline, because I'm thinking to myself, like, I'm training for a 100 mile right now. It's in about four weeks. If I found out in four weeks. Oh, well, you know, it's progressively getting bumped back to the point where now it was six weeks later. I don't know how I'm showing up to the start of that in terms of where my fitness is at, how I look. What are you doing in these six weeks between when you're supposed to start and when you actually did? 1.3s
I was crying, 1.6s you know, like it was tough. I mean, I had no choice. It's either, okay, listen, be delayed by six weeks or just suck it up and don't start. And I took the option of let's just take let's take the best of a bad situation. And that was always my approach on the Appalachian Trail. Um, there is a physical measurement that I went by because I was up north 1.2s in Maine and I was doing some training runs down. Katahdin You're losing. I don't know. What is it for? I mean, jeez, I forget 5000ft of loss in in just to come down from guitar. And so I was training my quads for that. And I did that run three times before I did the Appalachian before I started on August the 2nd. And yeah, when I started on August the 2nd, I felt so bad, you know, in all the training runs, I've done that closer to my peaking for the start date. I felt great. You know, I said to my crew, Hey, I mean, I can't believe how good I feel, you know, I'm feeling great. That first day I came down and during coming down, I felt so bad. And I thought, this is this is a really bad start, you know? I mean, this is a bad start to a to a to. Yeah, I mean, to. What can you do? I mean, really, I'd. I just had to take it. I had to digest that. Had to swallow it and. And yeah, I was upset. It was. I mean, I didn't even know if I was going to start. So when it when the weather got so bad, one haiku got killed crossing a river, crossing roads or collapsing. Records are being broken for the amount of rainfall. Hikers are coming off trail. Um, I was at one point, I think. Well, it's over. I can't even start. So then I started thinking. I mean, you know, what would. What do we do? Do we do the Colorado trail? So at some points in time, I even didn't even know it was going to happen. And then eventually we got this weather window and I said, you know what? Let's just go for it. And I didn't feel great. I'd been doing my strength training. I done my last long run. And, you know, all that went out the window could have done better if we started on the set date. I'd say so I would say I was physically conditioned and I started to lose that. You know, mentally burning energy while I'm waiting to start. So I guess, you know what, Zach? I just said, Hey. What else can I do? You know, this is a bad situation, but actually, I can do it. So let's go for it. Yeah,
it's sort of taking that mindset where there's going to be things you can control and things you can't control. And to spend any mental energy on the things you can't control isn't going to make it any better. So at that point, you almost have to just accept the situation and then make the best decision from there. And it sounds like you did just that. And as far as best case scenarios, you got the record. So
yeah, yeah, I mean, totally. You know, I had a saying, um, it wasn't even a saying. I had a realization while I was out on the trail and I just noticed this cycle break down. 1.3s Persistent breakthrough, in fact, didn't even use the word persist. It was a breakdown breakthrough. So if anyone comes up with that term, you know, you hear heard it here first, right? I experienced it on a daily, daily basis, especially the beginning I would break down. And I would break through. And so the only way I would break down is I would just allow myself to continue moving forwards. And if I fed into whatever was breaking me down with negative energy, I would have not I would have not made a breakthrough breakthrough. I wouldn't have finished the trail. There's only one way you can get to the end of a 2200 mile run, and it's to have a positive mindset. I mean, you run 100 miles 1.3s when you have a negative mean because it's going to happen. You know, you're going you're not going to feel great from start to finish. Otherwise, that's just it's just not going to happen. I mean, how do you mean? Do you use negativity to find negative negativity or mean how do you get out of this negative? No,
What you just described, I imagine, is just like a much longer timeline version of what I would do for 100 miles. And I mean, 1.1s it's impressive that you're able to do it for that long. I think of it like going into the race, knowing that you're going to have those kinds of peaks and valleys in terms of your perception of how things are going or, you know, what the task at hand is from a sustainability standpoint. So knowing that you're going to be presented with that negativity is, I think, a really powerful tool to go into the event with, because then when it happens, you can be honest with yourself and say, okay, I knew this was going to happen, now I know how I'm supposed to respond to this. I know I'm not supposed to respond to this. And then if you do, take the bait, so to speak, and let your mind go negative, you know that you made the wrong decision. And I think we're all competitive to some degree. And I don't think we want to have a situation where we step off the course thinking, oh, I failed myself. I went in with the right plan, but I wasn't able to execute it versus something uncontrollable that stops you. So I think that can be powerful. Knowing what the right decisions are going in is largely as you can, so that when you're presented with something, you're not burning much mental energy, just trying to navigate a situation that you don't know what the process is for. But ultimately, at the end of the day, the way I look at, 1.1s you know, just my relative capability to run a 100 mile race, the difference between me being like just really nailing it or just having an okay day when I'm in the same fitness state is really the degree to which I can catch those situations and, you know, make the right decisions sooner rather than later, versus sitting there and dwelling on it for a little bit and then saying, okay, wait, I know this is wrong and then reconnecting and yeah, so the more times you can kind of like consistently pass through that and notice it, except that you might feel a little more miserable than the average for a period of time. And then I also know that's going to pass. The better your income outcome ends up being. And it's super independent from your fitness state, which is a really interesting piece to the puzzle, in my opinion. 1.2s
So it's the ability to react to a situation as soon as possible will give you the best possible outcome.
And like what you were saying before, with just relative efficiency, I think it's the same thing. It's like if I had, I could run at the exact same pace, but my non-moving time is twice as long. I'm arriving there later despite working just as hard. Same thing with my mind. It's like I could dwell on a mistake or dwell on a low point for twice as long, but then it's going to reduce or it's going to extend the amount of time I'm in a bad place versus a good place. So the more I can eliminate that time frame of doubting, the quicker I'm going to be able to get to the finish line with that side of things. So it is that balance between the physical and the mental and kind of working both those systems at the same time, I think. 1.3s Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think also what helps me on the Appalachian Trail was the worst. The situation I experienced. They say if it doesn't break you, it makes you stronger. And like, for example, I was running through an electrical storm and I was worried. I was worried, because I didn't have a rain jacket. And I started to get very cold. So I had to start running faster than I normally would. So I was worried about getting injured because I wasn't getting my all day pace, too worried about getting hypothermic and cold and hurting like, you know, just becoming in a dangerous situation. And three, I was worried about being struck by lightning. So a few days later when obviously I got through that and I got past it and a few days later when it was raining, I'd say, well, hey, you know what? At least I'm not in an electrical storm. Yeah. 1s You know, So suddenly the situation you've experienced gives you the armor to deal with a situation which is pretty bad. But if it's less bad than the one you've been in, your armor prevails and you're able to, you're able to adapt to it. Whereas if I hadn't been in that electrical storm, I'd probably be really affected by this all day rain that I was getting. So I think the hardest situations I encountered on the Appalachian Trail almost fortified me just along the entire trail, till eventually I felt like actually, you know what? I've really encountered everything. I don't think there's anything worse to encounter. I mean, I had the worst weather, um, I experienced. 1s
Record rainfall, you know, went through Vermont with ridiculous mud. And yeah, so each encounter I got, which was really bad, just made the less 1.4s the next obstacle feel less difficult.
Yeah, it is interesting because yeah, your worst situation, your perception then kind of calibrates around that. So you do have that situation where you have a really rough go of it for one reason or the other, probably even before the event to some degree, and then you can kind of recalibrate what you're able to or where you place that on your spectrum of difficulty. So that's an interesting thought. Um, I mean, you mentioned weather, so we were talking about whether I should say. You got out there six weeks later? It sounds like the weather wasn't great anyway, so you ended up having some issues. Is that pretty normal or do you have to anticipate that to some degree or was this something where it was like, Yeah, any other time I went out there, the weather was quite a bit better and I just had a rough go of it weather wise here, despite your quicker pace. 1.4s
Yeah, it was the aftermath of the weather. So, I mean, for mud to dry out probably takes weeks or months. So all the weather we had preceding starting just made Vermont 2.9s so muddy. You know, the hikers call it for mud. And 1.2s yeah, I tell you what. Right. I felt like I was escaping and I was a prisoner of war. I was so traumatized by running through mud, you know, for 16 hours one day. Um, that actually, that's where I got my overuse injury from. Because I didn't train in mud, you know, especially for 16 hours. So I got this kind of, like, overuse injury in my lower below my knee, kind of on the outside of my shin above my ankle. Um, 1.1s which got me to the point where I was on my hands and knees and I was crying because I was trying to push my obviously the whole. 1.3s Idea of ultrarunning is to push the body, the mind, to push the body where you know where you want it to go. So I was trying to push my mind, pushing my body and pushing my body. And they got to the point where I got down on my hands and knees. I just and it was the breakdown phase. I broke down. I started crying and I just had this conversation with my body. Okay, listen, I'm sorry. I really apologize. I'll get you into a motel. We're going to put your leg up because moving 1.5 miles an hour is not going to get us anywhere. And if you recover, we're going to try again. But I respect you. I'm sorry I apologized and I suddenly became emotionless. You know, I stopped crying. I saw my crew. I was like, okay, guys, this is the situation. I'm super psyched. I'm really excited about tomorrow. But as for today, my body's at, I'm listening to my body. So I went into a motel. Um. Did there. Was it the rest of the ice compression elevation? Watched a bunch of Netflix, ate a bunch of food. Actually watched the Made to Be Broken documentary. So how come Elsa suffered and thought What if my body is up for it? I'm ready to suffer some more. And I went back out on trail, lost my lead on Elsa because I had a great lead on him even at that point, and eventually just started. Well, my pain never went over four out of five, so four out of ten. And I was like, I can deal with four out of ten because the day before it was ten out of ten and I phoned up David Horton and I was like, Hey David, did you say something? Which sounded like Pain is weakness leaving body and soul. You just gotta do what you got to do, just to me, keep on moving forwards and just start stuck with me. And I was like, okay, I can handle four out of four out of ten, you know? And 1.1s but as to your question, like to the weather kind of sidetracked a little bit there. It was the aftermath of the weather. So all that rain created insane amounts of mud in Vermont. Um, quite higher than usual river crossings. Um. And how she was so bad. I'd been training, I'd been stuck in New Hampshire, training, came from Thailand and went to New Hampshire. And I trained at my friend's, my friend's place, Veronica Leeds, and that was my base right on the Appalachian Trail training and it was beautiful. And then when I got to New Hampshire on my record attempt, it was so bad. It was just there was water everywhere. I mean, it was pretty bad. The thing is, you can't really, um, there's no right or wrong weather. It just changes year by year. But apparently, according to the statistics for the last couple of years, they've almost been in a drought. So last year had perfect weather. Um, so I guess it's a testament to me and the crew to persist through those terrible conditions and still set an fKt
as well. Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. I think just the, the, the relative nature of this sport is growing across the spectrum and I think. Generally speaking, the FCT and the long haul FCT stuff is getting more and more popular to the degree where I feel like I just see and maybe I'm just paying closer attention, but I feel like I'm seeing more people going after these records kind of going down. In kind of like more frequently or like someone will break it, someone else will break it, not necessarily yours, but like the just in general, like the longer stuff. And is that some perception you have is that the body of athletes that are willing to do this stuff and willing to maybe not just do it as a one off, but go out and try it again afterwards, growing to some degree. 1.8s
So I was listening to, um. Um. Ah, you run the guy's podcast twice. Forgot. Yeah. Right next to Joe. Great, great podcast. And he had Ronnie Coleman on. Nine times or something like that. Mr. Olympia. And I think Joe Joe said like, how do you guys come back and show up year after year and keep on, you know, becoming the world's best? What is it? I mean, there's I mean, there's Arnold Schwarzenegger seven times, Mr. Olympia, Ronnie Coleman, nine times Mr. Olympia and a bunch of other guys who I forgot and I guess. 1.1s Once you kind of crack that code and you have that experience, you can come back and you can apply that template and you can build on your previous successes. You know, like you've built this platform and you can stand even higher the next time you go back and do something. So if you look at the likes of, say, for example, Karel Saab, who's for me started this all off. I was a member of his team in 2018 and I was inspired by my experience with him. He set the record on the Pacific Crest Trail. You set the record on the Appalachian Trail. He set the record via Alpina in Europe, which is pretty amazing. And then he went back to the Pacific Crest Trail and broke the record that Timothy Olson set. So that's four trails, which are over 2000 miles long. And he definitely has cracked the code, you know, and worked out what you've got to do by myself. And I'm a two time Appalachian Trail finisher now. The second and the third fastest times ever in the world. I'm pretty pleased with that. And I even have the hunger to go back, if I'm honest. So. There's like I think once you experience something like, I mean, you must have experienced it yourself, you know, with your first hundred miles, you have this amazing experience. It's valuable to you and you want to repeat it. Um, otherwise 1.1s you'll feel you're probably missing out on something. I mean, I'll also say Ronnie Coleman, you know. Carlson May Christy Morgan Zach Bidder You mean like everyone's repeating something they're personally good at, you know? And that's, um. 1.1s So I would say, yeah, you go and you do. And not just us guys, but look at the three hikers. These guys don't just hike a trail, they hike the Appalachian Trail, then the hike, the PCT. Then they become a Triple Crown as they do the continental divide. And then some of these dudes, my friend, Peace Foot, he's just about to finish the PCT, and he's going to be a triple. Triple A triple, triple crown. 1.5s I mean, to imagine,
You know, you know, what I find interesting is I think there's like this at least this is how I look at it, I always find even when I kind of have the process dialed in, I look at this is what I know how to do. I'll finish and I'll always find something where it's like, You know what I think If I could just maybe improve this little spot here, I might be able to go a little bit faster. So as long as that stays there, I think it's like the motivation to kind of go out and try to improve upon your prior, your prior attempt or figure out something that you haven't quite solved yet because there's an endless number of things that can kind of go differently or go wrong. So like just having a scenario where like, well, if I do it again, maybe I will better navigate this situation or I won't have to make the best of this bad situation because I won't get into that bad situation. And yeah, I think that is what probably brings me back the strongest and more than any specific time or record, is just walking away from certain disciplines that I'm interested in and thinking, okay, yeah, got everything out of myself there. And you know, in a perfect world, maybe it would've gone faster. But I really can't expect to have gone much faster than I did. 1.6s
I mean, there's a reason they say it takes a lifetime to become or to achieve excellence. I really think it's just, 1.4s you know, you're repeating and every single time you're doing it, I mean, maybe it takes a certain type of personality, but I definitely have those qualities or traits however you want to look at it, that when I do something, I completely I mean, I've been doing it since I've been running marathons in Ultras. The first thing I would do is what did I do wrong, you know, because that for me is so valuable, you know, And when I do it again, I can cross those things off and not repeat them. So, yeah, maybe I don't know if it's human nature or if it's a certain type of personality, but if you want to achieve, if you want to be the best or really try to excel at something, I think looking at your mistakes in prior attempts or races is the way to do it. Um, 1.5s for sure. You know, I mean, that's, uh, yeah, it seems like a no brainer to me. Yeah.
So is it too early to ask what's next? 1.9s
Um. Well. Mean. Definitely. Um. 1.3s You know, recovery for me, you know, super important. Want to feel recovered. I mean, I'm excited about life. Zack, I you know, I got so many things that I'm passionate and excited about, um, in terms of, like, what am I going to do? 1.1s I really don't. I think the big question is really, do I let go of the Appalachian Trail or do I not let go of it in terms of going to improve myself? And so I think the big question for me is, am I finished with trying to set speed records because there's always the north north bound in the overall record and do I let go? Because there's so many things I've identified that I can change, like you said, and improve. Um, and I mean, the list is long, it's such a long list and I feel I could improve so much and I'm all still only 46, you know, for these long, slow endurance events. I'm still in the game with my age. My experience is amazing. Oh, do I kind of just say let it go? You know? So have I got to that point? Where has that been? I don't have that answer yet. I really I'm not there yet, so I can't answer it. But yes, I'd love to go back to the Appalachian Trail 24 or 25. Would I do a bunch of things differently? Yes. Um, or do I let it go and actually maybe start thinking about some other stuff? Just running some hundred miles? I mean, man, I love a hundred miles. You know, there's all these races in America that I want to do. I'm getting excited about Utmb. 1.1s Um, Thailand in Chiang Mai. I mean, that's been my training ground for years and they've got a 100 mile race there, you know, on my trails, which I've been I know so well. So I really don't have the answer yet, 1.7s so to speak. But I'm definitely enjoying the recovery, and that's pretty important. The better question probably would have been like, are there any passion projects that you've had on the back of your mind even before this attempt that eventually you'll likely do? It sounds like you've listed some of them, so maybe those are the. 2.5s
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I want to write a book. There's no question. Um, yeah, I do want to write a book. Whether I want to aim just at runners or maybe the general public, as in how to take a template on how to become excellent at something or achieve your personal best. Or maybe just follow your dreams and put that, you know, in an environment where people can just use that for other areas in life. So I do want to write a book. I also lived in Ethiopia for a while and in fact, just yesterday one of the guys who I helped, um, emigrated to Canada. Now he has three girls. They're all Canadian with their passports and stuff. He was in a difficult situation in Ethiopia, so that was great. You know, do I go over to Canada and continue with my notes for the book? Do I? I have so many projects, you know, that I want to do and I feel a little bit messy. Maybe I won't end up doing them all, but, um, yeah, I mean, improve my marathon time, you know, I still feel I can get a marathon PR It's like, what is it, 249 at the moment, I'm pretty sure. I know I was like on, I think it was mostly there's 249 on trails. You know someone I raced as I on a trail marathon I think around 249 as dude what's your road time was like 248 so were you better get back up and get
Yeah, I think you can do a lot better on the 229 marathon running around. I think you can improve your time. So you like to do that? Um, yeah, I got a lot of things, but I'm definitely enjoying getting back into the coaching now with my runners and just forgetting about myself for a while and sitting on the couch and just listening to, you know, my athletes and saying, Right, let's do this. Let's take that approach. Let's get excited about this race. Um, and just kind of naturally, um, was there, distributing the work to other people. You know, I'm happy to just
chill for a while, no doubt. I imagine so. Christian It's been awesome to catch back up and kind of hear about the latest adventure. But before I let you go, if you want to let the listeners know where they can find you and kind of what you're up to, feel free to share that. And I can also add it to the show notes. 1s
Sure. Yeah. I mean, of course. I just ran for 45 days on a 1.3s Okay. All right. Just ran for 45 days on a trail in America. And we just spoke for 60 Minutes. So there's so many things I didn't mention. So if anyone wants to go and find out how it went and check it out, go to my Instagram because like I had every single day the gun section was doing social media for me day one right through the day 45. And then 1.1s passed the time I did these dances. So like I would put my phone down, I'd take a minute out of my day, you know, every couple of days, point them at myself, record myself dancing. And then I'd do this real and you add the music afterwards, you add some voiceover and then do captions. So like just to occupy myself, I would send out these dances online. So I'd do the Donald Duck dance. I do some Latino dad saying, I mean, it was, you know, it was fun and it was just lighthearted. So anyone who wants to go and check out what my journey was like on a day to day basis, go and check out Instagram, which is my name Christian Ultra, and my name spelt with a K, Christiane and then Ultra as in ultramarathon and have some fun looking through my journey because it was a great journey and it's kind of documented on it.
Very cool. Yeah. One of the best qualities of the access we have to information and social media is something like that where you can get a little better, better for a paper trail or something as big and grand as what you just did. So hopefully everyone will head over there and check some of that out. I'll definitely link that to the show notes, but thanks again for coming on. It was awesome to hear more about it. 1.2s
Yeah. Zach, I just got a question. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm. I've been following you for a while, and, you know, an avid fan and follower. You know? So are you actually going to look at maybe doing Transamerica? Yeah,
I'm still going to do it. I just am trying to figure out the best time and kind of approach to really play around with all of it. The way I kind of am looking at it right now is waiting till I sort of get a little more just kind of maybe unmotivated and tired of kind of the single day ultra type stuff and then maybe go about the approach a little bit differently. So I mean, and all of this would have happened maybe a little bit sooner, just in the sense that like I've had a couple injuries the last since that first, like I've been super injury free my entire ultrarunning career for the most part. But then the injury I had going into the TransCon project sort of like was a spiral of a few different injuries. That kind of plagued me for the better part of the last couple of years. So so it was like it wasn't that I was not running at all, but it was like I was kind of getting back to where I felt like, All right, now I'm kind of humming on all cylinders and it made me do a race, but I just was like, not quite where I wanted to be or I needed another rep or something. And then I'd have a hiccup in that next build up or something like that. So I'm just now kind of getting to a point where I'm really at a spot where I think I'm fit the way I was when I ran my fastest 100 miler. So part of me is kind of really interested in it, just like once I get that to kind of try to maintain it for a while and take some swings at a few different races. I've still got a lot of trail races in the hundred mile distance that I'm interested in doing or if haven't some of them I've done already, but I just am. I'm confident I can go faster so I want to or maybe faster is maybe the wrong word for it. You never know with the trails, but I performed better on them that I'm sort of thinking of it through that lens of. Exhaust yourself to some degree with that process before you jump into something that I expect to be quite a bit different. But it's definitely on the to do list. 1.2s
Yeah, I mean, I'm super excited, you know, to see you. And you mean you'll be going for the speed record?
Yeah, that would be the hope for sure. I mean, actually what I'm probably doing is just waiting for you guys to get so sick of it and retire that I can just outsource all of the hard mental and logistics stuff to one of you guys and then just bring you on board. 1.1s
Well, I mean, Zach, I mean, seriously, like, I'll be 14 for sure because 1.1s I always think that you should try to get advice from people who have achieved what you want to achieve. Now, I never asked to cross America, but I did run for 45 days, two years in a row. So but I guess the guy you want to go to is Pete Castle,
right? Yeah. He's the man of. Of the trans con for sure. But like you said, I mean, I think there's there's so much crossover just I think from the general like the the repetition of it all, the extreme of it all and whether it's on a trail or on a road, in fact, that from a logistical standpoint, I think TransCon is probably a little bit easier because you are on a designated path that is a little more established than you know when you're out there in the wilderness, more or less. So I think having guys like yourself are probably almost a tier more prepared than what someone would have to be to do a trans con type of project. Although, you know, it's like anything, once you start wearing yourself a little thin, it's going to be difficult no matter what environment you put yourself in. So it's I guess it's probably kind of like comparing a road 100 miles to a trail one. It's like they both have their unique difficulties and relative advantages over the other, so 1.1s you just can't underestimate it. 1.3s
Yeah, well, it's good to hear you're, like, excited about the 100 mile scene, and, you know, you're holding that, you know, on the back burner something, because I'm really excited to follow that journey or be a part of it or whatever happens. But it's going to be pretty cool. And I've been following you for you for a few years now, and I really think, you know, if anyone's got what it takes to go and challenge that record. Zach You know, yeah, I think you're like particularly stand out from the crowd there, so I'm excited for you. Awesome. Well, I appreciate
it. 1.1s
Yeah, no worries.
Awesome. Well, thanks again, Christian. It was great to chat. We'll have to. We'll have to catch up again down the road. 1.1s
Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me on the show. And yeah, that speaks soon. Take care